Paint to Sample - Increased or Decreased resale/desirability?
01-09-2012, 04:18 AM
#31
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ROLLING ART i think the pics you posted are some very nice examples of pts. So nice and rare,
rare is....rare.
thanks for posting. i love the mexico blues/rev blue cars and any chance I get to see pics of them is always a treat in my books. resale on those must be holding very well
I know if i had one it go to the grave with me~im sure more will contact you trying to buy it. Infact im going to do so right now.
rare is....rare.
thanks for posting. i love the mexico blues/rev blue cars and any chance I get to see pics of them is always a treat in my books. resale on those must be holding very well
I know if i had one it go to the grave with me~im sure more will contact you trying to buy it. Infact im going to do so right now.
01-09-2012, 09:07 AM
#33
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Do you walk into the dealer that has the car you want and tell them "This car is exactly what I was looking for, I have been searching for this all over the place...now, what is your best price?" Of course not. As soon as you let the seller know outright they have something you value their negotiating position improves.
The user car inventory color selection *is* boring.
01-09-2012, 04:09 PM
#35
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Let's face it...nothing says " I'm an **** retentive that worships my car" more than PTS.
In that respect, a potential buyer can assume that he is getting a car that has had monthly oil changes, weekly waxings (wheels off and clay bar,of course) and hourly evaluations to find any bird droppings, wheel dust...or god forbid a minor ding that will immediately diminish the value down to zero.
That attention to detail may increase the value to a like minded retentive buyer....more so than finding someone that shares the vision that Electric Magenta is just what was missing from the Porsche color palette.
In that respect, a potential buyer can assume that he is getting a car that has had monthly oil changes, weekly waxings (wheels off and clay bar,of course) and hourly evaluations to find any bird droppings, wheel dust...or god forbid a minor ding that will immediately diminish the value down to zero.
That attention to detail may increase the value to a like minded retentive buyer....more so than finding someone that shares the vision that Electric Magenta is just what was missing from the Porsche color palette.
Last edited by Graygoose997; 01-09-2012 at 04:45 PM.
01-09-2012, 04:48 PM
#36
Let's face it...nothing says " I'm an **** retentive that worships my car" more than PTS.
In that respect, a potential buyer can assume that he is getting a car that has had monthly oil changes, weekly waxings (wheels off and clay bar,of course) and hourly evaluations to find any bird droppings, wheel dust...or god forbid a minor ding that will immediately diminish the value down to zero.
That attention to detail may increase the value to a like minded retentive buyer....more so than finding someone that shares the vision that Electric Magenta is just what was missing from the Porsche color palette.
In that respect, a potential buyer can assume that he is getting a car that has had monthly oil changes, weekly waxings (wheels off and clay bar,of course) and hourly evaluations to find any bird droppings, wheel dust...or god forbid a minor ding that will immediately diminish the value down to zero.
That attention to detail may increase the value to a like minded retentive buyer....more so than finding someone that shares the vision that Electric Magenta is just what was missing from the Porsche color palette.
Tom
01-09-2012, 04:48 PM
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PTS has got to be for you. Do you love it and plan to keep it?
In general I believe PTS wont add to re-sale value (very few exceptions here). It will make it harder to sell. Especially a green. There is an *** for every seat but far fewer asses for a green seat.
I'd buy a 997.1 GT3RS in green - not a day to day Carrera.
In general I believe PTS wont add to re-sale value (very few exceptions here). It will make it harder to sell. Especially a green. There is an *** for every seat but far fewer asses for a green seat.
I'd buy a 997.1 GT3RS in green - not a day to day Carrera.
01-09-2012, 07:55 PM
#39
Let's face it...nothing says " I'm an **** retentive that worships my car" more than PTS.
In that respect, a potential buyer can assume that he is getting a car that has had monthly oil changes, weekly waxings (wheels off and clay bar,of course) and hourly evaluations to find any bird droppings, wheel dust...or god forbid a minor ding that will immediately diminish the value down to zero.
That attention to detail may increase the value to a like minded retentive buyer....more so than finding someone that shares the vision that Electric Magenta is just what was missing from the Porsche color palette.
In that respect, a potential buyer can assume that he is getting a car that has had monthly oil changes, weekly waxings (wheels off and clay bar,of course) and hourly evaluations to find any bird droppings, wheel dust...or god forbid a minor ding that will immediately diminish the value down to zero.
That attention to detail may increase the value to a like minded retentive buyer....more so than finding someone that shares the vision that Electric Magenta is just what was missing from the Porsche color palette.
Good one.
And maybe accurate !!!
Phil
01-09-2012, 09:33 PM
#40
I own a paint to sample 1984 3.2 liter Carrera. It was a hard sell for the previous owner 22 years after it left the showroom. I bought it because it was completely different from every other 3.2 liter out there, but I bet I would have a hard time selling this car as well 28 years after it was produced.
I have a relatively rare paint color 1990 C2. That too sat on a large Chicago dealership's lot for nearly 6 months before I came along and snapped it up due to it's rare color combo. The salesman told me they couldn't sell the car due to it's color combo and blew it out to me for $500 over their cost (they showed me what they had in it).
So, even decades later, PTS doesn't add value in most cases.
I have a relatively rare paint color 1990 C2. That too sat on a large Chicago dealership's lot for nearly 6 months before I came along and snapped it up due to it's rare color combo. The salesman told me they couldn't sell the car due to it's color combo and blew it out to me for $500 over their cost (they showed me what they had in it).
So, even decades later, PTS doesn't add value in most cases.
01-09-2012, 11:19 PM
#41
Quattro Libre: Is this the car you were thinking of getting???
I am just pulling your chain. This is my old 2007 997.1 Paint-to-Sample 911S done in 'Signal Green'. The paint code is W25. My car was ordered on spec by Porsche of San Diego (formerly called Pioneer) back in the spring of 2007. It had sport exhaust, Sport Chrono, Adaptive Sport Seats (heated) and a few other interior options painted in the exterior color (center console and air vents) which gave quite a 'pop' to the interior. The car had factory wheels painted black, which are essential (in my opinion) with this color combination. The original owner (a friend of mine from Arizona) had the dealership install a gt3-like aero kit. I bought it from him, the original owner, when the car was 3 1.2 years old, had 16K miles and with 5 months left in the original factory warranty (four years). No previous accidents and a clear CarFax. MSRP was $102+, not including gt3 Aero kit. I paid close to $50K for it about one year ago, which I thought was a great deal.
As others in this forum have heard me say before, not all 'Green' cars are equal. In my book, 'Signal Green' is the king of the 'Greens' in the Porsche world. 'Signal Green' is not the color that Porsche selected for the 2007/2008 gt3 RS. That color is officially called 'RS Green' and has a different color code. True 'Signal Green' has more 'yellow' tint than blue in the mix. 'RS Green' and 'Viper', another vintage colors from the 1970's, have more blue than yellow. In my many years of Porsche ownership I have owned a lot of the original 'Signal' colors Porsche has developed for their cars. I had an original paint 'Signal Red' 1965 C Cabriolet, an original paint 'Signal Yellow' 1973 911T and this 'Signal Green' 997. I am only missing 'Signal Orange' and I am still looking for that one! However, of all of these signature 'Signal' colors that I have owned, 'Signal Green' is by far the most beautiful, impressive & vibrant color of the lot!
A few words about PTS. All color codes can be found in the inside of the gas door on these 997s. It is spelled English as 'Colour', not American as 'Color'. The colour W25, or 'Signal Green', dates back to 1968 in the early 911's. It was a special order color and not many were made even back then. Today there are only a few dealers in the US that are very adventurous in their spec ordering of PTS cars. Euroclassics in Virginia, Porsche of West Houston, Walter's in Riverside, CA and Pioneer of San Diego come to mind. Two of these dealers (Pioneer and West Houston) ordered three 'Signal Green' 911's in MY2007 and MY2008. Mine was one of those so spec'ced in 2007. These dealers (and a few dedicated PTS customers) are brave enough to order cars most others in America would never dare. We are a richer & certainly a more colorful hobby by what these daring folks have done. And we should all be thankful that these PTS cars exist in the limited Porsche color palette of today, dominated by a few 'standards' like Black, Silver, Grays, White and Red.
Porsche is one of the few automotive companies that allow you to do Paint-to-Sample. Mercedes, BMW & VW do not. Audi has an Exclusive Department but makes it very difficult to follow through with the special colors. Porsche Exclusive is an incredible asset that we have at our disposal, allowing us to customize our sport cars in ways not offered by any other manufacturer in this 'lower' price level. You have to go to Ferrari, Bentley, Rolls Royce et al. to experience the same degree of choice and customization. But like everything else in today's world, Porsche Exclusive gets more complicated and expensive every year. Back in 1970, the super rare 'Crystal Blue' special order paint on my original 53K mile 1970 911E Targa cost $185. In 2007, the 'Signal Green' PTS on this 997.1 cost $4,315. By 2009, PTS was increased to $4,500. And in 2010, it rose to $5,500, where it has remained to the present. And the series production folks are constantly testing the painted surfaces - steel, aluminum, carbon fibre, plastic - to determine if the color fading characteristics of the requested PTS color can pass muster. 'RS Orange', for example, is not longer available because it failed these latest 'test'. So PTS is expensive, delays production and is subject to arbitrary 'sorry, can't do' by the powers that be. But if you finally get that unique color on your dream car, it is worth all the extra trouble & added expense!
Quattro, only you can answer the question if a PTS Green car is worth it and what price to pay for it. I didn't have to pay a premium for it because I bought it from a good friend. But I would have been willing to pay more than what I ended up paying for it, simply because I have never seen a more beautiful color on a 911 than this 'Signal Green'. It is all personal opinion, of course.
By the way, I would have the dealer selling this car in Texas confirm the 'colour code' for you. This car may indeed be 'Signal Green' and not the 'RS Green' of the gt3 RS. The reason I say that is that for MY2007 (only), Porsche reserved both the 'RS Green' and the 'RS Orange' colors exclusive for their gt3 RS models. Only in MY2008 did they allow these 'signature' gt3 RS colors to be ordered on other models! In fact, there were many done in MY2008 - the base gt3's was allowed in PTS 'RS Orange', as well as '08/'09 Turbos in that color, plus some Limited Editions Boxsters in 'RS Orange' and Caymans in 'RS Green'.
In any case, good luck with your decision!
Saludos, Eduardo
Currently in Vail Valley, Colorado
I am just pulling your chain. This is my old 2007 997.1 Paint-to-Sample 911S done in 'Signal Green'. The paint code is W25. My car was ordered on spec by Porsche of San Diego (formerly called Pioneer) back in the spring of 2007. It had sport exhaust, Sport Chrono, Adaptive Sport Seats (heated) and a few other interior options painted in the exterior color (center console and air vents) which gave quite a 'pop' to the interior. The car had factory wheels painted black, which are essential (in my opinion) with this color combination. The original owner (a friend of mine from Arizona) had the dealership install a gt3-like aero kit. I bought it from him, the original owner, when the car was 3 1.2 years old, had 16K miles and with 5 months left in the original factory warranty (four years). No previous accidents and a clear CarFax. MSRP was $102+, not including gt3 Aero kit. I paid close to $50K for it about one year ago, which I thought was a great deal.
As others in this forum have heard me say before, not all 'Green' cars are equal. In my book, 'Signal Green' is the king of the 'Greens' in the Porsche world. 'Signal Green' is not the color that Porsche selected for the 2007/2008 gt3 RS. That color is officially called 'RS Green' and has a different color code. True 'Signal Green' has more 'yellow' tint than blue in the mix. 'RS Green' and 'Viper', another vintage colors from the 1970's, have more blue than yellow. In my many years of Porsche ownership I have owned a lot of the original 'Signal' colors Porsche has developed for their cars. I had an original paint 'Signal Red' 1965 C Cabriolet, an original paint 'Signal Yellow' 1973 911T and this 'Signal Green' 997. I am only missing 'Signal Orange' and I am still looking for that one! However, of all of these signature 'Signal' colors that I have owned, 'Signal Green' is by far the most beautiful, impressive & vibrant color of the lot!
A few words about PTS. All color codes can be found in the inside of the gas door on these 997s. It is spelled English as 'Colour', not American as 'Color'. The colour W25, or 'Signal Green', dates back to 1968 in the early 911's. It was a special order color and not many were made even back then. Today there are only a few dealers in the US that are very adventurous in their spec ordering of PTS cars. Euroclassics in Virginia, Porsche of West Houston, Walter's in Riverside, CA and Pioneer of San Diego come to mind. Two of these dealers (Pioneer and West Houston) ordered three 'Signal Green' 911's in MY2007 and MY2008. Mine was one of those so spec'ced in 2007. These dealers (and a few dedicated PTS customers) are brave enough to order cars most others in America would never dare. We are a richer & certainly a more colorful hobby by what these daring folks have done. And we should all be thankful that these PTS cars exist in the limited Porsche color palette of today, dominated by a few 'standards' like Black, Silver, Grays, White and Red.
Porsche is one of the few automotive companies that allow you to do Paint-to-Sample. Mercedes, BMW & VW do not. Audi has an Exclusive Department but makes it very difficult to follow through with the special colors. Porsche Exclusive is an incredible asset that we have at our disposal, allowing us to customize our sport cars in ways not offered by any other manufacturer in this 'lower' price level. You have to go to Ferrari, Bentley, Rolls Royce et al. to experience the same degree of choice and customization. But like everything else in today's world, Porsche Exclusive gets more complicated and expensive every year. Back in 1970, the super rare 'Crystal Blue' special order paint on my original 53K mile 1970 911E Targa cost $185. In 2007, the 'Signal Green' PTS on this 997.1 cost $4,315. By 2009, PTS was increased to $4,500. And in 2010, it rose to $5,500, where it has remained to the present. And the series production folks are constantly testing the painted surfaces - steel, aluminum, carbon fibre, plastic - to determine if the color fading characteristics of the requested PTS color can pass muster. 'RS Orange', for example, is not longer available because it failed these latest 'test'. So PTS is expensive, delays production and is subject to arbitrary 'sorry, can't do' by the powers that be. But if you finally get that unique color on your dream car, it is worth all the extra trouble & added expense!
Quattro, only you can answer the question if a PTS Green car is worth it and what price to pay for it. I didn't have to pay a premium for it because I bought it from a good friend. But I would have been willing to pay more than what I ended up paying for it, simply because I have never seen a more beautiful color on a 911 than this 'Signal Green'. It is all personal opinion, of course.
By the way, I would have the dealer selling this car in Texas confirm the 'colour code' for you. This car may indeed be 'Signal Green' and not the 'RS Green' of the gt3 RS. The reason I say that is that for MY2007 (only), Porsche reserved both the 'RS Green' and the 'RS Orange' colors exclusive for their gt3 RS models. Only in MY2008 did they allow these 'signature' gt3 RS colors to be ordered on other models! In fact, there were many done in MY2008 - the base gt3's was allowed in PTS 'RS Orange', as well as '08/'09 Turbos in that color, plus some Limited Editions Boxsters in 'RS Orange' and Caymans in 'RS Green'.
In any case, good luck with your decision!
Saludos, Eduardo
Currently in Vail Valley, Colorado
01-10-2012, 12:12 AM
#42
Poseur
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I own a paint to sample 1984 3.2 liter Carrera. It was a hard sell for the previous owner 22 years after it left the showroom. I bought it because it was completely different from every other 3.2 liter out there, but I bet I would have a hard time selling this car as well 28 years after it was produced.
I have a relatively rare paint color 1990 C2. That too sat on a large Chicago dealership's lot for nearly 6 months before I came along and snapped it up due to it's rare color combo. The salesman told me they couldn't sell the car due to it's color combo and blew it out to me for $500 over their cost (they showed me what they had in it).
So, even decades later, PTS doesn't add value in most cases.
I have a relatively rare paint color 1990 C2. That too sat on a large Chicago dealership's lot for nearly 6 months before I came along and snapped it up due to it's rare color combo. The salesman told me they couldn't sell the car due to it's color combo and blew it out to me for $500 over their cost (they showed me what they had in it).
So, even decades later, PTS doesn't add value in most cases.
01-10-2012, 12:53 AM
#43
What color is it?? And how about a photo of it?
Paint to Sample 1984 3.2 - Bitter Chocolate (from the 1975-76 color palette) over special order tan/brown full leather interior (interior code 75). The car has only three options - alarm system, "Monterey" radio and sunroof. 15" phone dials are original equipment.
Left "abandoned" in the original owner's driveway for 5-6 years outside before it was sold to 2nd owner in 2005 in a poorly running condition. 2nd owner got it running, then flipped it for a small profit to me after a year. First shot is from 2nd owner when he looked at it while For Sale. I buffed the paint out by hand (your looking at original paint for the most part). Completely new suspension, everything works except the alarm which the original owner disabled it somehow when new, full records from new including every fuel fill up since September 26, 1984 (date of delivery). It's gotten 22-24 mpg consistently since 1984 (I still keep the fuel log going).
I get dirty looks, sneers and pick up drivers cut me off in the 997. I get thumbs up in this thing - I guess most people like old cars.
I've had car guys ask me how I can be seen in this ugly poop brown old car. F'em. I simply love it.
Just for reference, Car and Driver reported the '84 Carrera was the fastest production car in the US in that year with a 0-60 time of about 5.4 seconds. 200 hp, 185 ft lbs, ~2800 pounds. '84 was the first year of the computer controlled fuel delivery system called Digital Motor Electronics. These were good cars...
01-10-2012, 01:03 AM
#45
Here's a quick one of the '90 from this fall. 34k on the clock, concours only car, fully original, full records. The "Ugly Duckling" of the 911 world. Maybe the worst year ever for 911's other than maybe the mid year 1970's 2.7 liter cars as far as reputation goes...
Again, the dealership couldn't sell this car due to the color and reputation of the early 964 when I snapped it up 12 years ago...
Again, the dealership couldn't sell this car due to the color and reputation of the early 964 when I snapped it up 12 years ago...