Jay H

So, are you sitting down?

I went to pick up my 997 at the Porsche dealership. The service advisor was busy, so I just went back to the cashier, paid my $78 to mount and balance two tires and waited for my car to be brought around front.

I then read my invoice. It states:

Test drove. Replaced L side tires. Roadforce balanced each tire twice. LF tire originally had 22 lbs; now has 15 lbs. LR originally had 29 lbs; now has 14 lbs. Noticed Fix-A-Flat in both tires; this will attribute to tire balance.

Remember, these rims and tires were sourced from a CA company and were sent to me in a box. All I did was mount them on my car. I had a local tire shop (who I trust) balance them once. They did not remove the tires. I had the first Porsche dealership balance them again. They too did not remove the tires from the rims. On Friday, I had the 2nd Porsche dealership balance the tires for the 3rd time. Today was the first time the rims and tires were separated.

I called all four places that have been involved with this issue. Of course the 2nd dealership that found the Fix A Flat didn't add this substance. The 1st dealership denies doing such a thing (they were the one that did the half shaft repair and my nephew is the service advisor - so they wouldn't do such a thing either). The tire shop is reputable as well and they were stunned at the finding. Of course the original vendor denies any wrong doing. They said they will investigate and "call me tomorrow".

How does the car drive? Considerably better. There is only a minimal amount of shake in the front steering wheel and I think I can live with that. There is still some shake in the seat of the pants, but this simply may be the characteristics of these cars. I have zero point of reference other than my 987 Boxster (which is long gone).

Do the other two winter tire and rims assemblies have Fix A Flat in them??????

This story is almost ridiculous. I couldn't even make up junk like this, much less experience it in person. Thanks for following along and more importantly, thanks for your time in responding and brain storming with me. I appreciate it!

simsgw

Wow. The one thing we didn't consider was someone putting crap in the tire. I think it's quite possible that whoever originally mounted those tires thought he was somehow reducing callbacks by using that liquid to protect against slow leaks arising from the occasional poor bead-to-rim mating.

If I'm right, if it is a regular practice of their mounting crew, then those other two tires will have the same problem, though presumably less fluid was used since you're feeling less from them. Did you buy the summer set of wheel/tire combos from the same supplier?

Porsche specifically bans such substances from commercial sources and limits use of their own version to emergency travel to a repair site. If you specifically named your car when buying those wheel/tire set-ups, you have recourse against the supplier, because they sold a product not suitable for the intended use. And I would use that recourse, by God. You have six other tires you're going to have to repair by demounting them, cleaning the interior, and remounting them.

Really, Jay. I would pursue this with the highest management level you can reach at that supplier. After all your travails, you should get at least a reimbursement for any charges you paid already, and their approval to pay whatever else it will cost to remove and replace the other six tires.

Finally, a question that never has mattered to me, thank goodness. Does that stuff stay liquid in the tire? Or does it adhere and solidify after a few miles? If the latter, then cleaning those tires may be exceptionally difficult, and they will be hard to balance as long as an uneven amount of fix-a-flat is covering the insides. You may need to replace those tires before this problem goes away completely and your car feels like it should.

Gary

gota911

Jay,

Unbelieveable!

Jay H

I'm going to have the other two tires/rims from Wheel Enhancement taken to my tire shop, have the rims and tires separated, then assess if there is any goop in them. They will then be cleaned and rebalanced.

No, the Carrera IV rims and Michelin PS2's were sourced from a brand new 2011 997 from the lot at the selling Porsche dealership. Those rear tires are supposed to be perfect (according to Porsche dealership #1 that did the half shaft). However, I have mounted the two new warranty replacement Michelin summer tires (with the associated new Carrera IV rims) on my car various times and they shake like the dickens. I have a feeling the Michelin tire dealership's Coats brand wheel balancer is simply not up to the task of balancing tires for a precision machine like a Porsche. Those two new Michelin tires need to go to a shop with Hunter road force machine.

We'll see how Wheel Enhancement handles this situation tomorrow. Unfortunately, I was extremely frustrated with them today on the phone. They could not help me today.

I have no idea as to what the substance was inside my rims and tires. I would suspect that the goop was liquid and moving inside the wheel and tire assembly. The insides of the two Pirelli winter tires are sticky to the touch and leave black substance on my hands.

All of this makes sense (the goop in the winter tires) since I'd leave the various shops and all would be good. Then 5 minutes on the freeway and things would start to deteriorate. The car was ALWAYS changing from day to day. I would assume this goop would balance out on the machines, then when the car was at rest, it would puddle and then goof up the fresh balance.

I also think I have zero leg to stand on with Pirelli because once they see any sort of goop in my Wheel Enhancement tires, all warranties will be null and void. Also, I wouldn't be surprised if the two Wheel Enhancement tires I just had removed at the Porsche dealership are just fine if they could be completely cleaned of their goop.

This story is insane. Really. Who would (in their right mind) put goop in a tire? The only vendor I do not trust right now is Wheel Enhancement simply because I don't know them and have never been in their shop. I will do whatever it takes to allow them to make things right. But, time will tell how they handle this.

Vancouver-BC

Wow. But glad to hear that the car is finally moving in the right direction. I agree with Gary, I would certainly chase after Wheel Enhancement.

Hopefully by the time you have the other two tires checked you will have one smooth running Porsche.

Jay H

Here's an update on my situation...

The vibration and odd feel in the car were still driving me nuts. The last trip to the dealer helped quite a bit, but the car still was not right. I refused to be beaten by this car.

Upon speaking with The Tire Rack several weeks ago when we last left off, I asked what to do with my Pirelli's. Damon mentioned that they had just received a new shipment of Michelin PA2 winter tires from Michelin. They were suprised at getting the shipment. After a some discussions with him, I decided to toss my credit card number his way and bought a new set of the Michelin winter tires while I still could get them. Actually, my wife insisted that I buy them... Yeah, I then had three sets of tires for this car...

I had to wait about two weeks before I could get into the dealership to get these new Michelin's mounted and balanced on the Carrera III rims. Today was the day. I got the car back this afternoon and...

It's a completely new car. It's never driven this well since I bought it. So, the fresh, newly produced Michelin winter tires have transformed the car. All the vibration is out and all the goofy wobbling and shimmying have been exorcised from the car. It really is like driving a completely new to me car.

I still have the issue with the summer Michelin PS2's, but I've had enough for now and will tackle that issue in April.

Wheel Enhancement has refunded my money for two of the Pirelli's since they were able to resell them. The Tire Rack agreed to take their two tires back, no questions asked. I have two Pirelli's left which were the original set from Wheel Enhancement and W.E. is telling me to hold on to those tires until they find a buyer for them... I don't think Wheel Enhancement believed me about the goop in two of the tires and has made the promise to buy back the remaining two tires at a later date.

I added up all my receipts. I spent just under $2000 on 6 new winter tires and mouting and balancing fees. I have about 26 hours of my time spent driving the car to all the various shops and sitting in waiting rooms. It boils down to this:

The Pirelli's I got from Wheel Enhancement were junk.

The two replacement Pirelli's I received from the Tire Rack were better tires, but didn't cure the problem completely.

I probably had an issue with that half shaft since that repair contributed to making the car better (there was a positive change after that repair).

I probably had two bad front Michelin summer tires as well (which have now been replaced by new, warranted Michelin PS2, though they have not been balanced correctly).

I came THIS close to trading this car off. I guess it's a good thing winter is around and the supply of nice 997's in the snow belt is slim to none and my check book is still smarting from all those tire purchases...or I may have given up a relatively good used 997 due to all these issues.

Once again, the Tire Rack has proved to be a top notch company that stands behind their product.

Thanks for following along, even though it's next to impossible to figure this all out on what all happened. We'll see what April brings when the summer tires go on.

Best,

Jay

Vancouver-BC

Jay,

Thanks for the update and glad to hear you are finally happy with your car. I have to replace the tires on my car in the spring, so this information has been very helpful.

simsgw

That has been our experience with Tire Rack also. A good business.

As for Summer, it's a sad thing I have to say, but I suspect you need to start over with summer tires just as you did winter ones. Maybe consider the Michelin Pilot Super Sports from Tire Rack this time.

Sure glad you're getting this sorted out, Jay.

Gary

Jay H

The car shook again over 50 mph on the way in to work this morning. I have to assume the tires flat spotted over night in the warm garage. I drove about 25 miles this morning with no change in the car. It's cold though with temps around 20.

I agree, I'll have to start over with the summer tires too.

Jay H

Just a brief update... (and I hesitate to even post this...)

7 months later...

After 16 different tires, 13 visits to dealers and tire shops, almost 40 hours of my time, nearly $400 in tire mounting and balancing fees, 2 new tie rod ends, 1 new half shaft, alignment, emails to corporate officers of PCNA, many phone calls to 1-800-Porsche (which is useless BTW), several calls to Michelin, calls to Damon at the Tire Rack (Damon is awesome!) and nearly 500 miles of driving to and from all of these places with no change in the car, I've sold the 997.

The bright spot was that I was able to drive quite a few nice, new Mercedes loaners and even a $90k Panamera loaner for a day.

Thank you to all for your help on this thread.

Jay
90 964
84 3.2

fskof

What are you replacing it with?

Jay H

The 997 was my daily driver...I've bailed out and stepped down to a lesser brand of car for everyday driving chores.