Intermittent "Sport Mode Failure" and high RPM power loss
11-03-2011, 07:08 PM
#1
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Intermittent "Sport Mode Failure" and high RPM power loss
Before I seek out troubleshooting or diagnostics from my local dealer I wanted to see if anyone has any similar experiences. I am experiencing high RPM power loss and an associated "Sport Mode Failure" warnings on my 2006 Carrera S with the X51 package that is 100% stock. Car has about 68,000 miles and has had its 60K mile service, and is not under warranty. Problem has been re-curring for approx. 3 months.
Description of symptoms:
Car starts and runs normally, with no warning lights or other idle problems, however at 3000-3500 RPM the car will bog heavily and will not rev past 4000 rpm. The engine feels plugged and labored. While exhibiting this condition if you push the "SPORT" button, the dash will beep and display "Sport Mode Failure". PSM and Active suspension work as normal.
Often once the car is stopped and restarted or after driving for some time (<15 minutes), the symptoms will disappear and I can drive normally and sport mode will work normally. Once I get sport mode to work, it seems like I can stop, start, park and we re-start the car for the rest of the day and it will act normal with normal power delivery throughout the rev band. However once parked overnight (warm, dry covered garage) the next morning it will have the same trouble.
Additional findings:
On startup if I engage sport mode before I start the motor, it will turn off, beep and display "sport mode failure" in the morning. A few time it would start in sport mode, and I can drive down the street and suddenly the dash will "beep", sport mode will shut off, I experience bogging and power loss, and the dash will display "sport mode failure".
I tried to see if it was a solenoid failure of the flap in the exhaust, so I disconnected the connector that controls the PSE under the hood. No change in the behavior resulted.
Also charging the battery with a CTEK charger does not change the symptom.
Any ideas? From my previous experiences with BMW cars and sport mode I have a few problems I suspect MAY be causing the problem. Those include:
Bad ground connection
DME needs a reflash
cam position sensor?
bad MAF? (I've cleaned the MAF with the correct spray product, with no change)
variocam solenoid? (I have read that the M97 does not use a solenoid as the M96 did)
Any help whatsoever will be appreciated!
RESOLVED:
It was the throttle body/e-gas valve that failed, or was failing. Installation was very easy, remove the airbox, unplug the throttle body, remove 4 e-torx fasteners, replace gasket and install new part and reassemble. 20 minutes tops.
The X51 uses the same 82mm throttle body as the GT3 and, it seems, some Cayennes. Part #s are as follows: TB - 997-605-116-01 Gasket - 997-110-319-40
Throttle body is about $325.00 online for "genuine Porsche" and I found OEM Bosch for about $25 less. FWIW the original part that come off my car was clearly marked Bosch, so I would not be afraid to just save the $25 and get the OEM.
Thanks for all the help and advice guys. Happy to have the car at 100% again.
Description of symptoms:
Car starts and runs normally, with no warning lights or other idle problems, however at 3000-3500 RPM the car will bog heavily and will not rev past 4000 rpm. The engine feels plugged and labored. While exhibiting this condition if you push the "SPORT" button, the dash will beep and display "Sport Mode Failure". PSM and Active suspension work as normal.
Often once the car is stopped and restarted or after driving for some time (<15 minutes), the symptoms will disappear and I can drive normally and sport mode will work normally. Once I get sport mode to work, it seems like I can stop, start, park and we re-start the car for the rest of the day and it will act normal with normal power delivery throughout the rev band. However once parked overnight (warm, dry covered garage) the next morning it will have the same trouble.
Additional findings:
On startup if I engage sport mode before I start the motor, it will turn off, beep and display "sport mode failure" in the morning. A few time it would start in sport mode, and I can drive down the street and suddenly the dash will "beep", sport mode will shut off, I experience bogging and power loss, and the dash will display "sport mode failure".
I tried to see if it was a solenoid failure of the flap in the exhaust, so I disconnected the connector that controls the PSE under the hood. No change in the behavior resulted.
Also charging the battery with a CTEK charger does not change the symptom.
Any ideas? From my previous experiences with BMW cars and sport mode I have a few problems I suspect MAY be causing the problem. Those include:
Bad ground connection
DME needs a reflash
cam position sensor?
bad MAF? (I've cleaned the MAF with the correct spray product, with no change)
variocam solenoid? (I have read that the M97 does not use a solenoid as the M96 did)
Any help whatsoever will be appreciated!
RESOLVED:
It was the throttle body/e-gas valve that failed, or was failing. Installation was very easy, remove the airbox, unplug the throttle body, remove 4 e-torx fasteners, replace gasket and install new part and reassemble. 20 minutes tops.
The X51 uses the same 82mm throttle body as the GT3 and, it seems, some Cayennes. Part #s are as follows: TB - 997-605-116-01 Gasket - 997-110-319-40
Throttle body is about $325.00 online for "genuine Porsche" and I found OEM Bosch for about $25 less. FWIW the original part that come off my car was clearly marked Bosch, so I would not be afraid to just save the $25 and get the OEM.
Thanks for all the help and advice guys. Happy to have the car at 100% again.
Last edited by IslandS52; 03-31-2012 at 03:43 PM.
11-03-2011, 08:16 PM
#2
Race Director
Before I seek out troubleshooting or diagnostics from my local dealer I wanted to see if anyone has any similar experiences. I am experiencing high RPM power loss and an associated "Sport Mode Failure" warnings on my 2006 Carrera S with the X51 package that is 100% stock. Car has about 68,000 miles and has had its 60K mile service, and is not under warranty. Problem has been re-curring for approx. 3 months.
Description of symptoms:
Car starts and runs normally, with no warning lights or other idle problems, however at 300-3500 RPM the car will bog heavily and will not rev past 4000 rpm. The engine feels plugged and labored. While exhibiting this condition if you push the "SPORT" button, the dash will beep and display "Sport Mode Failure". PSM and Active suspension work as normal.
Often once the car is stopped and restarted or after driving for some time (<15 minutes), the symptoms will disappear and I can drive normally and sport mode will work normally. Once I get sport mode to work, it seems like I can stop, start, park and we re-start the car for the rest of the day and it will act normal with normal power delivery throughout the rev band. However once parked overnight (warm, dry covered garage) the next morning it will have the same trouble.
Additional findings:
On startup if I engage sport mode before I start the motor, it will turn off, beep and display "sport mode failure" in the morning. A few time it would start in sport mode, and I can drive down the street and suddenly the dash will "beep", sport mode will shut off, I experience bogging and power loss, and the dash will display "sport mode failure".
I tried to see if it was a solenoid failure of the flap in the exhaust, so I disconnected the connector that controls the PSE under the hood. No change in the behavior resulted.
Also charging the battery with a CTEK charger does not change the symptom.
Any ideas? From my previous experiences with BMW cars and sport mode I have a few problems I suspect MAY be causing the problem. Those include:
Bad ground connection
DME needs a reflash
cam position sensor?
bad MAF? (I've cleaned the MAF with the correct spray product, with no change)
variocam solenoid? (I have read that the M97 does not use a solenoid as the M96 did)
Any help whatsoever will be appreciated!
Description of symptoms:
Car starts and runs normally, with no warning lights or other idle problems, however at 300-3500 RPM the car will bog heavily and will not rev past 4000 rpm. The engine feels plugged and labored. While exhibiting this condition if you push the "SPORT" button, the dash will beep and display "Sport Mode Failure". PSM and Active suspension work as normal.
Often once the car is stopped and restarted or after driving for some time (<15 minutes), the symptoms will disappear and I can drive normally and sport mode will work normally. Once I get sport mode to work, it seems like I can stop, start, park and we re-start the car for the rest of the day and it will act normal with normal power delivery throughout the rev band. However once parked overnight (warm, dry covered garage) the next morning it will have the same trouble.
Additional findings:
On startup if I engage sport mode before I start the motor, it will turn off, beep and display "sport mode failure" in the morning. A few time it would start in sport mode, and I can drive down the street and suddenly the dash will "beep", sport mode will shut off, I experience bogging and power loss, and the dash will display "sport mode failure".
I tried to see if it was a solenoid failure of the flap in the exhaust, so I disconnected the connector that controls the PSE under the hood. No change in the behavior resulted.
Also charging the battery with a CTEK charger does not change the symptom.
Any ideas? From my previous experiences with BMW cars and sport mode I have a few problems I suspect MAY be causing the problem. Those include:
Bad ground connection
DME needs a reflash
cam position sensor?
bad MAF? (I've cleaned the MAF with the correct spray product, with no change)
variocam solenoid? (I have read that the M97 does not use a solenoid as the M96 did)
Any help whatsoever will be appreciated!
My first impression is the MAF is suspect #1. Of course, it was not dirty. They seldom are unless one fits an aftermarket air filter that requires oiling to work.
The failure of sport mode to work and the beep from the PSM system can be caused by a bad MAF. The MAF supplies data these system controllers use and if that data is bad the systems will not be able to engage and the behavior you noted comes from this.
Consider disconnecting the MAF at the wiring harness. Be careful disconnecting/connecting the MAF. Do not static discharge to the connector of the MAF or harness connector. The latter connector is the DME end of the harness and if you zap the DME, $.
Use an OBDII code reader to clear the OBD error codes. Do this though none are present, the CEL is dark. Do this clear simply to reset the fuel learning acquired by the DME to their defaults. If the MAF is bad the learning will be bad as well and it is better to start off a test with these reset.
The DME will relearn fast enough after you begin driving the car.
Then see if the car exhibits the same symptoms.
When you reconnect the MAF clear the error codes again for the same reason. The DME learning has been done with no MAF present.
What the engine's behavior is after the MAF disconnect test determines what you do next.
Sincerely,
Macster.
11-03-2011, 08:34 PM
#3
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Thanks for the great reply Macster. It is very helpful to have a second opinion and I too suspect the MAF.
To clarify a few points, can I use a generic OBD2 code reader or do I need a more specialized tool such as the Durametric? And also are you advising to drive the car with the MAF detached?
To clarify a few points, can I use a generic OBD2 code reader or do I need a more specialized tool such as the Durametric? And also are you advising to drive the car with the MAF detached?
11-04-2011, 10:41 AM
#4
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
coil packs and plugs changed on the 60k service ? if not, that's your problem.
if they were swapped out make sure all packs are properly engaged on the plug and ensure factory 3.8 packs were used. 3.6 packs and aftermarket packs do have different resistance levels and will cause the exact symptoms you refer to.
a bad maf will make the car run like a turd all the time, not just in a specific rev range.
if they were swapped out make sure all packs are properly engaged on the plug and ensure factory 3.8 packs were used. 3.6 packs and aftermarket packs do have different resistance levels and will cause the exact symptoms you refer to.
a bad maf will make the car run like a turd all the time, not just in a specific rev range.
11-04-2011, 12:14 PM
#5
Rennlist Member
i would expect to see misfire CELs if issue was due to bad coils... if car gives no CELs at all and does not go over certain RPM range without throwing _any_ CELs at all - first i would check fuel pump.
for MAF there is a very easy test - just disconnect wires from it completely. it can be done with battery connected but i would disconnect it too first to make sure ECU resets. with no MAF ECU will switch to 'default' rich fuel mode. If car works fine in this mode - extract MAF and wash it with maf cleaner, also check what condition your air filter is, if it is dirty beyound any limit it may simply not be enough air going into car. check throttle body condition if it indeed open wide when you press on gas.
not sure what else to write here. it is odd for car not to complain in such situation - those cars are very sensitive to ignition related issues and if no CELs are thrown - i would check first all simple stuff. to rely that anybody actually replaced anything at service time is silly, check it all yourself.
for MAF there is a very easy test - just disconnect wires from it completely. it can be done with battery connected but i would disconnect it too first to make sure ECU resets. with no MAF ECU will switch to 'default' rich fuel mode. If car works fine in this mode - extract MAF and wash it with maf cleaner, also check what condition your air filter is, if it is dirty beyound any limit it may simply not be enough air going into car. check throttle body condition if it indeed open wide when you press on gas.
not sure what else to write here. it is odd for car not to complain in such situation - those cars are very sensitive to ignition related issues and if no CELs are thrown - i would check first all simple stuff. to rely that anybody actually replaced anything at service time is silly, check it all yourself.
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11-28-2011, 10:41 PM
#11
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
again, let me reiterate the need to inspect your coil packs and plugs here. how long have you owned this car ? was the 60k service done on your watch ? a CEL will not necessarily pop with these symptoms.
based on your description of how the car is running and the intermittent nature of the problem im sticking with a coil pack issue. it's a known weak link in the 997 with its given age and mileage.
i would not throw anymore of your hard earned $$ at this until you have a complete inspection in this area of the car.
fuel pump failure on .1 cars is very rare and maf problems are almost always due to an aftermarket oiled filter or other form of intake.
based on your description of how the car is running and the intermittent nature of the problem im sticking with a coil pack issue. it's a known weak link in the 997 with its given age and mileage.
i would not throw anymore of your hard earned $$ at this until you have a complete inspection in this area of the car.
fuel pump failure on .1 cars is very rare and maf problems are almost always due to an aftermarket oiled filter or other form of intake.
11-29-2011, 02:49 AM
#12
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Ive had the car since May, and it had the plugs changed in early 2011. Original owner is a member here.
I appreciate the advice and will concentrate my efforts there, my hesitation being that the car is not giving me codes and i didnt want to be in a position where i am chasing a single bad coil, or replacing all six, but i guess this is where i am at.
I appreciate the advice and will concentrate my efforts there, my hesitation being that the car is not giving me codes and i didnt want to be in a position where i am chasing a single bad coil, or replacing all six, but i guess this is where i am at.
12-08-2011, 05:52 PM
#13
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Update: Talking to an independent shop, they suspect fuel pump failure. Car will likely go in for clear diagnosis this week even though I was really hoping to repair this on my own.
I have found a lot on HPFP failures on 997.2 cars, but if anyone has had a fuel pump failure in a 997.1 car I love to hear about it...symptoms, diagnosis, cost etc...
I have found a lot on HPFP failures on 997.2 cars, but if anyone has had a fuel pump failure in a 997.1 car I love to hear about it...symptoms, diagnosis, cost etc...
