PCC

My apology if this is a dumb question ... I'm a new 997.2 owner

I understand the 997.2 does not have fogs but daytime running lights .... if you click on your parking lights, the running lights dim significantly. At dusk, in my old car, I would turn on the parking lights and fogs ... better visibility .... is there away to maintain the brighter setting on the runners when the parking lights are turned on?

Mike in CA

Not a dumb question and welcome! The answer is no. In fact, the 6 LED daytime running lights and the 1 LED "position light with light guide" (Porsche's description) are two seperate elements in the light cluster. Note that the 6 bright LED's come on when you start the car (assuming DRL has been chosen in the menu). However, when you switch on the main or parking lights they go out completely (not just go dim), and the narrow position light above them comes on instead.

PCC

Why would Porsche eliminate fog lights? I don;t get it. I know some will respond with "they aren't needed blah blah blah ... however, for a $100k car I expect fogs ... simple as that

jhbrennan

Buy a car with foglights then - your choice.

ADias

Fog lights are not just another set of lights to add more light. Traditional fogs are there to focus light on the ground in a limited way and reduce the back-scattered bloom of regular lights in fog conditions.

The 997.2 comes with Bi-Xenons with very well collimated low beams that eliminate bloom in fog conditions. If conventional fog lights were added they would not add any value and they might not do as well. The beauty of engineering is simplicity not added complexity.

Mike in CA

We could be cynical and say it was cost cutting. OTOH, Porsche made BiXenon's standard on all 997.2 models. The main advantage of fogs is that they allow for more light down low without the scatter that you get from high-beams in foggy conditions. Since the Xenon lights have a sharp cut off, are much brighter with better dispersion, and are already relatively close to the ground in a 911, Porsche may have felt fogs were unnecessary. Besides, Porsche didn't hide from you the fact that the 997.2 didn't have fogs before you bought the car, did they?

Edit: Tony your post beat mine by a minute!

PCC

Thank you for your response. It's a reasonable explanation and stands in stark contrast to jhbrennan's waste of bandwith.

Minok

As has been mentioned, fog lights are not needed on the 997.2 because the headlights that come with them have a well defined pattern that eliminates the problems with traditional low-beams in fog, so they would be redundant. Fog lights are not needed with the 997.2s anymore. They still come with a rear fog light.

You should never run with your fogs (front or rear) unless you are in sever obstructed view conditions: dense fog (and much denser such as 50m max visibility for rear fog lights), thick dust storm, etc. Using fogs as a lighting at dawn/dusk is a bad idea as the light is too bright and blinds/distracts oncoming drivers. In Germany it would be a ticketable offense to drive with fogs on when conditions do not warrant them.

The parking lights (the ones that come on with the key out and the turn signal stalk switched to the left or right position) are for when you park on a shoulder/curb at night to provide active illumination to vehicles to know the car is there, particularly in areas with little to no street lighting. Very usefull in Europe in ancient towns with small roads, sharp turns and limited visibility.

The lighting you are looking for is the daytime running lights, which can be configured to come on when you start the car.

Traditional 'parking lights' should NEVER be used when driving. They are called parking lights for a reason.. they are to illuminate where the vehicle is (to others) when it is PARKED. The coloration being amber, would signal to other traffic that you are NOT MOVING. If you are in fact moving with parking lights on, you run the risk of someone not expecting you to be approaching them and they may turn in front of you or not expect you to make a lane change, etc. Don't do it.

jhbrennan

I always found it interesting that the DRL's on the Corvette are amber - I wonder how GM "skirted" the amber issue here. I believe I remember reading that some states prohibit driving with parking lights and that some Corvettes have been pulled over because of the amber DRL's.

Aerokitted

uhh.... too many rules to remember for it to be effective, bud. nobody thinks because they see amber lit it means the car is not moving. red means stop. amber means slow down it's going to go red. green means go.

anyways, on my 4runner, those so-called parking lights are lit amber all the time with the auto headlight mode on. same goes on the tundra. someone else mentioned the corvette.

fog lights are ugly ne ways

Minok

Yeah, for us Americans I guess it is too much to remember. We are 35th in math and science after all.

Red lights are for the back, white lights are for the front, parking lights are for 'parking'. They mean something in Europe and there they know what to do with them.

Its not that hard, but in a country where we cannot even keep the drivers 'in their lane' in a straight line o a clear and sunny day, its not surprising I guess. But then we are the country that will literally put a sentence of complex text on a highway sign in small font for drivers to read while whizzing by at 60mph, because we refuse to use internationally used pictogram or at least develop a simpler pictogram based sign and have lane guidance signs that are designed to be over the lanes they apply to and then proceed to not install them over the lanes but over the lines between two lanes leaving motorists to guess what to do.

Edgy01

When the 997.2 was introduced the facelift included the elimination of the fogs from the 997.1 for the reasons Tony mentioned--they were essentially redundant to a very well defined Bi-Xenon light pattern.

I really do like my ancient fog lights on my 997.1 car because they are focused onto the ground. Sometimes I run them instead of the headlights--I like the option. I suspect one of these days I will go the way of the front LEDs and will probably lose the fog lights.

PCC

I understand your logic. However, my 997 is black. At dawn/dusk it is hard to see. Driving with only parking lights on (which are on when headlights are switched on anyway) allows others to see a small, black vehicle when conditions do not require headlights but optics are poor

HenryPcar

[QUOTE=PCC;8925436]Why would Porsche eliminate fog lights? I don;t get it. I know some will respond with "they aren't needed blah blah blah ... however, for a $100k car I expect fogs ... simple as that[/QUO

I disagree with you. The majority of Porsche owners don't use fog lights. How often you run into thick fogs that you need fog lights that the new generation of LED lights are not enough for illumination, I'm thumbs up for getting rid of it. Incorporating all the bells and whistle to satisfy the ones and twos and cut costs on other quality to cover it is not the way to go. Porsche already learned a very expensive lesson by cutting costs, resulting in IMS problems that is still costing Porsche dearly. If you want all the bells and whistle, go for a BMW, which are known that people tried to get rid of it right after warranty expires.

cringely

What I liked about the fog lamps on my 911SC is that I could position them to point well away from straight ahead. Essentially, they illuminated the sides and made it much easier/safer when turning. Unfortunately, my 997 doesn't have the dynamic lighting system on current Porsches. My only hope is to win the 991 GTS lottery