yemenmocha

Should moonroof/sunroof whatever be mandatory as it is now, or optional like it was with the 996?

I'm not asking if you would get it, or would not get it, or if you like it in hot Georgia temperatures. Should Porsche give consumers the choice, or force us to have one with a coupe purchase?

Alan Smithee

It would be great if you could order a Porsche exactly how you want it here (as you can elsewhere). But given that the law (at least in CA) requires full refund of any deposit, I don't fault Porsche for making sunroofs standard equipment. 99% of luxury/GT car buyers expect a sunroof, just like they expect leather, xenons, navigation, etc. Anything that is not easily retrofitted is included as standard equipment (or not offered at all; the non-PASM 'sport' suspension on the 997.1, for instance) so that dealers are not stuck with an otherwise profitable car taking up space (and capital) sitting on the lot for months due to a buyer that backed out of a special order.

I don't like it, but I get it.

yemenmocha

This isn't some picky, trite option here. It changes the amount of headroom in the car which matters a lot for tall people, and people who don't want their heads hitting when wearing a helmet. Porsche is already an extreme ordering car manufacturer - it is crazy how many little options can be added or deleted... yet not something so damn simple as a sunroof.

BMW has sunroof optional, and it is irrelevant as to whether 99% of buyers want one (actually I think you're exaggerating a bit there, and btw xenons are not standard on the base Carrera, nor is navigation I believe). Porsche just doesn't want the extra cost involved in submitting multiple cars for crash testing and such, is probably what is the culprit here. From what I've read, Porsche does make sunroof delete an option in Europe. Just not here.

If dealers are scared of buyers backing out then they can take extra deposit, or have a portion be non-refundable. "Problem" solved.

racer

not sure if it should be optional or not.. I've had BOTH sunroof and non-sunroof cars and liked them BOTH ways.. Sometimes I want the ventilation and sun.. sometimes I want a touch more headroom. I waiver a bit.

I do wonder, given the Porsche way of making you pay more for less, what the take up would be if a NON sunroof was say, a $1500 option? $2500 option? How much "extra" would you pay for a sunroof delete?

I imagine from a manufacturers viewpoint, spec'ing out a car one way (ie, US cars (and maybe other markets)) simply come standard with a sunroof since the marketing department tells them that at a certain price, "people demand a sunroof to be standard".

While Porsche traditional has played to a fringe market, that is no longer true. Porsche needs to sell 100,000 units soon but given a limited # of base models, accomodating everyones request may not make sense anymore.

And yes, as you mention, Porsche would need to donate a dozen or so examples to be tested. Given that they have to PAY to have a vehicle tested, this sounds like a "million" dollar proposition to Porsche to even undertake.

Alan Smithee

All BMWs in the 911's price range have standard equipment sunroofs. I assume you are referring to the M3, which sells at much higher volumes than the 911, and to a younger, more focused demographic.

As I mentioned, xenons and navigation can be retrofitted. A sunroof-less $90k car will sit unsold, guaranteed. If there was a market for cars without it, you can bet Porsche would be charging for it (actually they do; it is called the GT3).

Contrary to internet rumors, the mandatory sunroof has nothing to do with crash testing. Neither the sunroof nor the roof skin are structural, and note that the GT3 models (same body and crash structure) do not have sunroofs.

As I said, in CA at least (Porsche's largest US market), dealers cannot make deposits non-refundable. You can order a car, put down $5k, wait for three months, go in to take delivery, change your mind, and walk away with all of your deposit.

yemenmocha

M3's (last and current gen), M5's (e60), and M6 were all sunroof optional, and some were carbon fiber roof optional. The M Z4 coupe was not available with a sunroof at all. M5's and M6's don't have the younger demographic that the M3 has. It's a simple option when ordering, depending on the model. For my M3 it was $700. I just think Porsche could do better by giving us the option. In 2010 BMW sold about 10k M3's in total, and Porsche sold around 6k 911's. Not sure that's such a low, prohibitive number when it comes to an option like sunroofs.

Alan Smithee

The M cars are to the 3-, 5-, and 6-series what the GTx cars are to the 911; they are for the more focused, performance-oriented buyers. The Z4 coupe, like the Cayman, has such a small roof that it isn't physically possible to have a sunroof.

To expand on your BMW example, I would like to have had my X5 without a sunroof, but it was mandatory. And note that very few BMW Individual options make their way to the US. Same reason - dealers do not want to be stuck with special orders.

Like I said, I don't like it either, but the problem is with our consumer protection laws, not the manufacturers.

LastMezger

I'm 6'5" and DO NOT WANT THE SUNROOF. Not to mention...does precious little when open as the opening is so small.

Mike in CA

Agree. I don't understand what the "problem" is anyway. How does making a sunroof delete optional for a special order buyer impact sales to regular customers, the risk of buyers backing out, dealer inventory, consumer protection laws, or anything else? I don't even see where crash testing is an issue; don't 911's in GT3 form come without sunroofs? This is simply a matter of Porsche trying to simplify their production process, but I think they should change things back to the way it used to be.

Alan Smithee

It's not too complicated. Dealers have a limited number of allocations. A car without a buyer is many thousands of dealer profit lost, perhaps over $10k depending on the model, how long it sits, and how much it has to be discounted to move it off the lot.

It's a PCNA issue, not a production process. Porsche will make a sunroof-less Carrera for other markets. Pete Stout's editorial in the last issue of Excellence explaining the labor-intensive process of making an optional leather covered rear console makes it clear that Porsche AG is not shy about tailoring a car, even for the US market.

Mike in CA

That's completely irrelevant to what I'm saying. I'm special ordering a car for myself. It has no impact on a dealer's remaining allocations for other buyers, and has nothing do with a car sitting on the lot unsold. The car has already been sold; to me! What does my wanting a special order car with an optional sunroof delete have to do with dealer profit or allocations? It doesn't harm the dealer, PCNA, or anyone else, any more than someone special ordering an unpopular paint to sample color does.

Porsche must have a reason for no longer offering a sunroof delete option on special orders, but it's not because they're afraid the cars won't be sold. On the face of it, that's illogical.

yemenmocha

Just... unbelievable that this isn't a 100% to 0% poll, that some folks want it mandatory that everyone is stuck with a sunroof whether they want one or not. Has to be a silly spiteful contrarian vote, I'll assume.

Alan Smithee

Not necessarily. As I said above...

Crazy Canuck

I would have ordered mine without the sunroof. I'm over 6'4" and I would prefer the greater headroom.

jakes dad

Could you imagine what a sun/moonroof would cost as an option from Porsche?????

Any guesses??????

I'd put it somewhere around 4K+

I'd bet there would not be a price reduction with the deletion of the roof...any takers?

I like the open roofs... don't give Porsche any ideas...