fgv1it

I don't think it is a matter of model year. All Porsches, starting with the 356's, have had issues of various kinds over the years, some of them potentially fatal. The early 911's had the chain tensioner problems, and that was just as bad as the IMS: if a tensioner failed, the engine was often destroyed. The early 356 Carreras with the roller bearing engines would eat up the bearings if you lugged the engine; the 944's need to have the drive belt changed religiously, and so on. These are complicated cars where the design of the various components is often "pushed" more than in a typical Chevy or Honda. I think we owners need to be a little more aware of these potential problems, and of the various ways in which we can minimize the likelyhood of them happening, whether that be by regular preventive inspection and maintenance, proper driving, or proactive replacement of problem parts. In the old days, that was taken for granted from Porsche owners. I think it is a sign of progress that today we can argue that these cars should run just as trouble-free as a Chevy.

TommyV44

[QUOTE=purrybonker;8641721]Wow - that's interesting, you find the fact that the engine needed to be replaced at 4k as support for the statement "These cars are super reliable..."?

Your logic fails me.

This discussion isn't about warranty support it's about being comfortable taking the car down the road and not being left there.

Man, you certainly have an axe to grind. When you don't like an answer you attack the respondent? Remind me not to bother in the future with your posts.....oh, I'll remember....forget the reminder !

Ynot

Ok, I've had a RMS fixed under warranty, so far 19,xxx miles w/o issues, yes, it's nowhere near 50K, and I am not comfortable taking it everywhere, not b/c of engine reliability but it's too damn low. I've heard more good than bad but definitely a lot more issues than my other car which is a Mercedes SLK. I've been a member on Mercedes forums since 2005 and the second generation SLK (r171) has no major issues. It's amazing, none at all except for the rattles which is causes by the seat belt position.

blake

I have owned 4 911s in my life, and all have been unbelievably reliable... Some are rarely driven, and others are flogged on the track and as daily drivers. So far, I have had minor problems. With Porsches, my biggest gripe is the dang batteries. I hate that I have to run all of them on trickle chargers!!!!

All cars have their issues. I used to drive BMWs as DD and ran into multiple fuel pump issues (known malady, and BMW is still trying to fix it...) I think the biggest challaneg to cars over the last decade is their move to more sophisiticated electronics. It will be interesting to see how the MBs, BMWs, Lexus, Audi, and Porsches from the 2000s decade fair 15-20 years from now... But with that said, the manufacturers on average are doing a good job for the first 100K...

-Blake

simsgw

Me too. Roughly the same selection that is. See... that was a joke.

My point isn't though. Porsche 911's lead the third-party reliability studies, so it isn't a trend. If your example seems like a clinker, then shed it quick while it still will bring a good price. Seriously. Every manufacturer has the occasional "Freiday afternoon and we're in overtime" example get out the door. It's a traditional nightmare of quality control. So if you got one, cut your losses.

That's what I'd do, and if I liked the model otherwise, I'd get all hurt and huffy with the dealer and play my 'injured' status to the hilt while negotiating a good deal on another one.

Just saying. Now if you decide on another Chevy instead, I do know this guy...

Gary, who had to do that once, but it wasn't a Porsche

RedBarron2007

This is not a 50s era friday 4.30 build problem. These engines, the ones in ALL of p cars seem to be having the same problems.. I agree ENTIRELY on the porsche taking care of its customers, but WHY? They paid for half the motor in my car, while the dealer paid for the other half, but why? I know of NO other manufacturer that will do this on such a reg basis, and from what i have been told, it is DONE ALOT. Porsche has been taking care of customers, which i think is AWESOME, but my feelings are this, They have been doing this so there is not a huge outcry that might be very warrented. this is not a 911 thing, it is a entire engine line thing.. boxters, 911s, all the boxter style engines of late are having the same issues 3.4, 3.6 3.8 liter engines. Ims, rms and THE SAME number 6 cylinder failure.

I am very much considering my next purchase. I really want a 09 up PDK 4s, badly. My comparisons to the Chevy is being construde as me believing they are better. I dont believe the Chevy or for that matter Ford or any domestic or for that matter BMW or Asian conterparts are better, but the amount of failures allowed or thought to be acceptable by porsche seems to be WAY higher than these other manufacturers. if they did not stand behind these failures the way they have can you IMAGINE the backlash that would occure? you think the fact your $100,000 car blew up at 4 thousand miles is OK? really? the fact they put a REMANUFACTURED MOTOR in your $100,000 car is a good feeling? my point is, they SHOULD NOT be needing to put themselves in this place of be so warrenty friendly.

simsgw

My point was that yours is wrong. Sorry, but the impressions we get either as individuals or visiting a specialty forum like Rennlist are useless to reach the kind of conclusions you express. My first degree was in statistics and I'm not entirely satisfied with third-party assessments of "initial quality" or "long term reliability". Even people with twenty years of experience added to my math background debate technical issues of such surveys for hours. But the debates don't matter. They are talking about differences in the noise level. The surveys are the way to learn what's going on in broad terms across the industry. You're right that mistakes shouldn't happen. But they do. Everybody's human. Well... except the robots, and humans made those so it still applies.

If you really care about these issues in that broad sense, then read the original reports of those companies. You can find them on line. If what you're really upset about is your own experience, then consider negotiating for a replacement car at a favorable price. If your experience has soured Porsche for you, despite the top ranking of the 911 in those industry reports, then remember that most -- I'm tempted to say all -- Porsche dealers sell multiple brands. Tell the tale to the general manager at your dealer and negotiate for an Audi or Mercedes or Ferrari.

Or... reverting to the less academic version of my reply: "I know this guy who'll get you a deal on a Chevy."

Gary

Quadcammer

The "stretched further than chevy" argument only really works when a chevy can't come close to matching the performance of the porker...but it does with the z06 and zr1

mclaudio

Although I don't own a 997, I've been lurking on this forum as I'm considering a future 997 PDK purchase as a replacement to my 996. I've had over 15+ Porsches (60s-00s models) - easily the most cars I've owned of the same brand and by far the most reliable make compared to other German brands I've owned. Having said this, the least reliable Porsche i.e. nagging electronic-related things and one major problem (engine replacement) has been the newest model I owned - an 04 Cayenne. After this car, I got gun shy on buying newer cars and went back to the most reliable Porsches I've owned - 80s 911 as a DD. I eventually bought back my old, more comfortable 99 996 which reliably has now been my DD.

Although car manufacturers have impressively pushed the speed and comfort envelope with these new cars, I'm hesitant to pull the trigger as I don't think car manufacturers have fully figured out how to build reliable car electronics. Also, while they have increased the output per engine size, they also have seemed to lower their build standards. For example, I feel that I have to step up to a GT3 engine to get a track worthy Porsche. It didn't use to be this way - any 911 was built to withstand the rigors of racing. Perhaps, the last couple of years of 911 (PDK and DFI cars) will be a step back towards such build quality. I'm still hopeful anyway...

Sean in Texas

I seem to recall a thread regarding a cost-cutting hole size change in the head gaskets leading to uneven cooling...

I have to say, even though I have a BMW S54 in my past, the engine thing has me worried, and thinking that even though it's probably more hardcore than I need, a GT3 might be a wise move.

RedBarron2007

again mypoint is missed..or being ignored

When you go to forums of other brands, you dont find on every page a member coming on asking about engine reliablity. you dont hear about guys replacing engines in cars with 4000, 10000, 16000 miles on them on a areg basis.. You keep bringing up the chevy comment.. Porsche is a second or third car player. 90% of the cars both boxter and 911 are NOT daily drivers. they are not seeing the kind of milage in the short amount of time other brands do, so of course if you drive you car 5-10 thousand miles a year your going to see less problems than a company whos primary modals double that if not more. The other fact is, when something bad happens, and porsche comes in and cleans up its mess so quick and painless, it makes people feel better.

The next point is guys are saying i have had p cars for xx years.. This is 996 and 997.1 problem from what it looks like so far. those are the only cars that matter. I have no dought that if you had a 993, you would not be having these problems..lol they are a water cooled engine issue.

before you say i am wrong about the actual issue i am bringing up ( your dancing around it like a kid at a b day party with a pinata) go do some homework. quit relying on ONE company who is talknig about general satisfaction, not actual engine reliability like this thread is discussing.

lets name the common problems of these engines, then if you feel the need to continue calling me wrong, at least come up with something better than "J.D power says so"

1. HUGE sand casting problems in early engines. large number of 3.6 engines replaced because of this
2. water pump failures
3. RMS seal problems on cars, Milage is not the cause as some have been replaced with as little as a few thousand miles
4 IMS bearing failures that does not just cause leaks, it fails and destroys entire engine.
5 short cut in headgasket fix causes engines to run warmer than needed, which alot of people think is the cause of the number 6 cylinder glazing and ensuing damage. This problem has really only been looked into by the hardcore engine guys in Europe so not alot has been said about it over here that i can find, it eems the engine has a very small window between normal operatiing temp and overheating, thus causing the pistons in 4 and 6 ( i have seen more 6 like mine fail than 4, but 4 is common enough to get mentioned) to be damaged along with cylinder wall because of the deminishing clearence with the increased heat.


unknown amounts of engines have been replaced because of these above problems. some dealerships say they see it once a week, others say once a year. either way, all of these problems seem to have been fixed on 09 up cars that have a totally redesigned engine.

these problems are with ALL water cooled boxter engines, not just the 911.

91469972

No issue's at all. My past two BMW's had nothing but problems!

Alan C.

18K on current '09' C2S. Second owner and no problems.

simsgw

Not at all. We just think you're full of... uh, wrong.

You stick to browsing the forums and getting secondhand reports of what some guy's mechanic told him. I'll stick to the research.

Gary

RedBarron2007

lol blind loyalty like this runs rampid through alot of boards. your response tells me you have NO ground to stand on.. its fine.. i love my car now that they have put a new motor in it and might even buy another.. would never own one without a warrenty though..cars are just to damn unreliable..