Skibum

Gas sold with a higher Ethanol content than 10% would be marketed as E15.

RollingArt

Where did you get the 9% # from?

And then why does it cause such a decrease in mileage?





Phil

Skibum

http://www.sunocoinc.com/Site/Consum...unoco260GT.htm

I used the stuff for a year at about 25% mix with hi-test. I saw no loss of mileage until I started depressing the loud pedal a bit more.

260GT is available in "handy" 15 gallon barrels.

DWF

The farm lobby is pushing Congress hard to require E15 to be the standard. It's my understanding the auto manufactures are pushing back because of the known damage this will cause to our engines. To me, this is very worrisome no matter what you drive. And to top it off you will get less MPG.

RollingArt

OK, thanks. Interesting.

In CA we may actually be getting the 260 gold, as it is listed CA street legal and the 260 GT is not CA street legal. They probably can't sell it at the pump if not street legal. The 260 gold is listed as 97+ octane and no additional info is listed like they do for the 260 GT. Maybe the gold is loaded with ethanol? That's why I'm seeing a drop in mileage? It gets confusing. They're keeping us in the dark on that one.





Phil

Domer911

Gas is gas, and the EPA specs it for all refineries because they all share space in a nationwide pipeline system.

If you are in Houston and you think you are buying Conoco gas, it was made by Shell.

If you are in Oklahoma and you think you are buying Shell gas, it was made by Conoco.

The majors trade barrels all over the country depending on the location of their stores versus that of their refineries. In other words, there is no guarantee that the Sunoco fuel you bought today was actually refined by Sunoco.

What retailers DO with the fuel when it gets to their stations, can vary. I recommend only buying fuel from reputable retailers who stand behind what they sell, and who don't gouge you on price.

10% ethanol blends may vary within a percent or so, but refiners do not purposely blend 8 or 9 percent, to be sold from dispensers with product "not exceeding" 10%. The variance can be accounted for in any number of ways, human error included. But generally they shoot for 10%. Their are economic factors (costs, liability) if they blended less or more than 10%.

Ethanol is an octane booster. In central Oklahoma when you buy regular unleaded with a minimum octane rating of 87, you are actually getting fuel that rates over 89, because the component unleaded fuel available in the market already specs at 87, thus getting a boost to over 89 when ethanol is added. In some markets, refiners now product a "sub-grade" unleaded that absolutely REQUIRES ethanol in order to meet minimum octane requirements. For reasons that will take a few pages to explain, I think the whole country is headed this direction, by the way. I think that in a year or two, it will be very difficult to find clear gas in most major markets. You can thank your government for that.

Your car will run fine on E-10. You will lose 2-3% of your miles per gallon, but you should be making that up on the price of the product versus E-10.

FWIW, from somebody in the business...

Mike in CA

Thanks for the info, Phil. Interesting and concerning. The various fuels do have different oxygen contents which makes me wonder what the specific content of the Sunoco 100 is. Also, any idea how the oxygen content number relates to the percentage of ethanol; ie can you calculate one if you know the other or are there other factors involved?

True. I was aware of that which is why I only blend enough 100 octane to bring the combined fuel octane to something over 93. With Phil's post above, however, I may rethink this whole thing pending additional info.

Domer911

My opinion, but it's unlikely that any fuel contains more than 10% ethanol if is is sold at retail stations, unless it is labeled as having an ethanol content in excess of 10%. HIGHLY UNLIKELY. The Sunoco site posted above labels the fuels that have ethanol in excess of 10% by volume. The others contain varying amounts from 0 to 10%, according to the Sunoco specs.

Mike in CA

That's reassuring, Domer. It should say on the pump what the ethanol content is and I'll check the next time I'm there. Thanks.

Domer911

What I am suggesting is that if the fuel contains in excess of 10% ethanol, it will be labeled accordingly. It MAY not reflect the ethanol content if it contains 10% or less. Those labeling laws vary by state. Interestingly, many of the big ethanol-producing states do not have any labeling requirements for E-10. More trivia...for many years (ten possibly) California refiners have had ethanol quantities of around 5% in their fuels. The ethanol replaced another compound that was eventually outlawed. So CA Porsche drivers have been burning ethanol for a long time.

But if you are concerned that they are sneaking more than 10% into your fuel of choice, I don't think they do that without labeling it.

RollingArt

Good to get a view from the "inside". I hope you're right.

I just looked at the label of the 260 GT+ barrel we have here. It reads " ethanol and gasoline mixture un3475", with ethanol listed first. That would indicate more than 50% ethanol, no?

Great input Domer, thanks.




Phil

p.s. I must have been lead footing it when I saw my mpg drop!

Skibum

FYI 260 GT plus is not street legal. I think it is 0% ethanol. Most likely uses an ether for octane enhancement.. (MTBE)
UM 3475 is only the hazmat designation.

http://www.sunocoinc.com/Site/Consum...o260GTPlus.htm

Plus.. being highly oxygenated, you'll get lousy fuel mileage

Domer911

I speak only to what's available to the public at retail. (I know nothing about what you might get industrially or at the track) You can visit the Sunoco site linked above and check out the specs of the 260GT+.

But I think MTBE was outlawed, as that is the component that ethanol replaced in CA years ago.

RollingArt

GT + is not street legal. We buy it by the 55 gal drum, not at the pump. You're right there.

However it is def high in ethanol content. Again, THE LABEL ON THE 55 GAL BARREL reads; "Ethanol and Gasoline Mixture", that's word for word, ON THE LABEL, and further more ethanol is listed first, indicating more than 50% ethanol.

The Sunoco site makes no mention of the ethanol content, but I do believe the 260 GT+ label when it says Ethanol is in the contents.

Yes, it was MTBE.

Sunoco doesn't spell out the eth content of the GT+.

The label on the 260 GT+ lists Ethanol first on its contents label.

Wouldn't that indicate eth as the major component? I was told this stuff is LOADED with eth.




Phil

Edgy01

When I used to live in OKC I had a place with an exclusive easement for the Mobil Pipeline company--for unleaded gasoline. Why oh why did I ever sell that place? What a goldmine that could have been...