docfink

I've never driven a newer, DFI engined 911, but as I went with the newest one I could afford with the options I wanted, I never felt the need.

However, while some say that overall differences between equivalently powered 997.1s and 997.2s are minimal, many say otherwise. The "more solid" feel you mention has me curious, although I have no interest in the PDK at this point in my life. Were there substantial suspension changes (besides electronic changes to the PASM) between the two versions of the 997?

It's time I go to the dealer and see if I can cop a ride in a new C2S or C4S!

gota911

Doc,

Yes, Porsche did refine the suspension for the 997.2 cars. Much of that refinement was based on the suspension changes which were made to the 997.1 GT3 RS.

Overall, there are a lot of changes to the 997.2 versus the 997.1. Usually, Porsche does a few modest tweaks to the "face-lift" (.2) models, but IMO, the 997.2 has enough changes and advancements that it could have been a new release.

1. Noticeable refinement to the suspension
2. All new (9A1) engine, which has:
   • an additional 30 HP for for the 3.8L (+20 HP for the 3.6L)
   • 40% fewer moving parts
   • is about 15 MM shorter (top to bottom)
   • DFI (Direct Fuel Injection)
   • No Intermediate Shaft
   • Water pump moved to the outside of the engine
3. Upgraded PCM
4. The introduction of the PDK transmission (Note: Sport Chrono is a MUST have to really get the best of what PDK can offer)

Once the 991 is released, it would not surprise me to find out that there are fewer "advances" (excluding the styling changes, both interior and exterior) between 997.2 and the 991 than there were between the 997.1 and the 997.2. However, I could be wrong.

docfink

Thanks for the info, Tim.

While I was aware of the transmission and engine changes and read about "refinement" to the suspension, I didn't know if any hard points or mechanical changes of the suspension were changed when the 997.2 came out.

dansen

Wow! Ozzie and gota911, thank you for you info. Edmunds.com is missing some of them.
So 997.2 is that I must have but the 09 depreciated just a little. They drove it for 2 or 3yrs and still asking for 65g to 80g. I think I’ll wait until the end of the year when the 991 come out and buy the 2011 with $20g discount.

zanwar

I drove a 997.2 PDK cab for a couple of days, and it had a noticeably harsher ride than my 997.1, but also rolled more through the corners. I figured the difference was due to the lack of PASM in the newer car (I'm running the same 18" wheels that come with the 997.2 cars so that shouldn't have been a factor). Before I tried the newer car I had some PDK and PCM envy, but neither technology impressed me as much as I thought it would.

bdoviack

There is a great book available for viewing all the changes and options between 997 models. Excellent chapters on what changed in the version 2 models.

The book goes into more detail about what changed in the interior, exterior, suspension, engine, etc. Explains how they work too (new transmission, DFI engine components, etc.). Plus it gives you tips on what to look for when purchasing.

What's nice is that it contains a lot of technical stats and has comparisons in HP, MPG, performance tests, etc. between models and years.

It's available on Amazon (link below):

http://www.amazon.com/Porsche-911-99...4982331&sr=8-1

Click on the "Search Inside" to see the Table of Contents and sample chapters.

cbzzoom

Any idea what the difference is exactly? What parts are changed? In what way is it better? I've never seen a technical description of how it's changed exactly.

From the 996 GT3 to the 997 GT3 the car was made much softer and given more understeer. Ever since the 997.1 GT3 the GT cars have been gradually evolving back towards neutral, with bigger rear sways, stiffer bushings, and various small changes like that. (though still not track-prepped in OEM state)

So far as I know that is not the case with the 997.2 vs the 997.1 , it's not any less understeery from the factory. And sadly just like the .1 the sways are not adjustable, nor does the front allow sufficient camber, so they didn't actually give us the GT parts, which would've been nice.

Palmbeacher

That's one philosophy. Another is to buy the least-expensive Porsche you can find with the lowest mileage/best condition and the colour and options you desire...and put the money you've saved toward something else.

Something about the shape of the 997.2 tail lights impacts my esthetic sense in a very negative way, so I only wanted a 997.1. Aside from Porschephiles, nobody has asked me why I didn't buy an S...because nobody else knows or cares. I wouldn't pay the added amount for an S because I don't drive even approaching the limits where the differences start to show up. And even if the purchase price is the same, a newer car will depreciate more.

chago996

.2 also has bigger and better brakes on both S and non-S, improved brake booster system, self adjusting hydraulic clutch (whereas only the S had it in its 1st generation. Litronic headlights also standard on non S now. And if you are lucky enough, the .2 has the Pasm sport (-20mm) available as an option.

dbosche

Well, I'm brand new to Porsche (and the forum) so hello all. But don't stop reading dansen! I just went through the same exact question and process last week. My new car is pictured (997.2 S). I'm going to forget about any conversations on 'value' as that's all the eye of the beholder. What I can say about compares is:

1) If you are looking for an 'auto' - tiptronic vs PDK was no contest. The PDK is amazing and much faster than I could ever shift myself. Its just flat out badass when you try it. For 'automatic transmissions' .1 = tiptronic, .2 = PDK. PDK was clear winner.

2) S vs non-S, the S 'comes' with PASM. If you weren't sold on PASM, you should drive a car with and without. The PASM made 'normal' driving quite acceptable even on long stretches of road where you might not care about the fun of getting from point A to point B. BUT, when it time came to have fun, one flip of a switch and a world of difference. So, you could add PASM to a non-S, but this already starts to point to S.

3) I can't imagine even thinking about that old PCM (please, no offense to those that have it). I have tried both, and also own a Japanese car (oh my) with lots of electronics, so I wasn't about to go 'backwards' in technology.

4) My strategy was to buy the oldest current generation technology Porsche as I can't afford a new one. So, a 2009 = 'most current' (at least things that are significantly different) without the full 2011 price.

5) S vs Non-S (other than PASM 'coming with' the S)? I'm sure the HP difference would be no issue with me, so this is a vote for non-S. However, when it came down to it, for what appeared to be about $5k in 2009 used S vs non-S apples to apples (as one can get) compare, I decided the S had some value to me. Furthermore, it was basically impossible for me to get a properly loaded (PASM, PDK, FULL PCM OPTIONS) non-S in the color choice (silver or like silver)...so I ended up always looking at the Ss.

Finally: GO TO THE DEALER WITH A WIFE, GIRLFRIEND, S.O. or something so you can test drive without a dealer. I made a point to be on the fence with my wife on which car we wanted, so we test drove just the two of us all the time. I'm not sure that is normal, but it totally took care of the dealer-in-car issue!

cbzzoom

The 997.1 S, the 997.2 non-S and the 997.2 S all have 4-pot 330 mm brakes, so the differences are quite small.

I believe these are the differences in the brakes :

The non-S 997.2 brakes are much better than the old non-S 997.1 brakes.

The 997.2 S has the same size pads & rotors as the 997.1 S and the 997.2 non-S , (maybe the rotors are thicker?) the only difference is the caliper is a closed single-piece design and is bigger hence stiffer. The brake cooling is also improved. Both of those changes are things you would only appreciate under hard track use.

If you like to DIY brake jobs apparently the non-S 997.2 brakes are a PITA.

This thread has some good info :

https://rennlist.com/forums/997-foru...ke-rotors.html

Edgy01

Everyone's requirements from a Porsche differ. Some here wouldn't be caught dead without a clutch pedal; others swear by PDK. Only you can determine for yourself which parts of the Porsche experience are the most important to you. Make a list of those experiences that you are seeking from your Porsche and then try to compile a list of those features which you believe will contribute to that experience. We can't do this for you. If we are making these decisions, then it's a car that we will be happy with. You may remain displeased.

mousecrab

I'm new to the P world (and still waiting to pick up my first P) so my knowledge is limited.
Sounds like there were really quite a bit of changes from 997.1 to 997.2 including engine, suspension, tiptronic vs. PDK, etc... with all these wouldn't this make the 2009 997.2 almost becoming a first year production with higher chance of issues down the road?

kouzman

I had the same dilemma and i went with a 997.2 3.6 6speed.

Very happy with the choice and one of the determining factors was the CPO warranty. My car is warrantied until 2015!

It has good options like bose suround, sport plus, adaptive seats and that's all i really wanted.

My main decision factor was to get the newest car i could buy / find within a specific budget... I could have easily spent another 5K and get into a 997.2S but at this point i decided that the 3.6 will serve my need more than enough!

I just love driving the damn thing!!!

Zeus993

Well... IMHO, I love the sound of my 997.1 S. The engine has an unmistakable wail that raises the hair on your back and puts a grin on your face that kicks in at around 5000 rpms that the 997.2 DFI doesn't have. The .2 nice car? Absolutely. But if you want a weekend warrior, save some cash, go for the drama and an extended warrenty with a nice low mile standard 6 speed 997.1 You can't lose. Resale values? Forget about it. These a GREAT cars. We're not talking mutual funds dude. We're talking about emotion. We're talking about getting up at 5am and going out for a wail when the streets are empty. Yeah!