ross74

Some advice needed on this:

I would like to upgrade the feeling of the stock brakes (steel rotors) without compromising road use which is the main purpose of my car.

So I am basically looking for a fast road solution.

I understand from reading past posts that Pagids (even the Blue one) will squeal a lot so to be avoided.

Can/should I use some GT3 parts (pads)? Do they fit and are they better?

I have read somewhere about a Porsche Sport pad, - what is that?

Last (expensive) solution is to trace a used ceramics kit but I will post a different thread on that.

RonCT

Not sure why you need a brake upgrade, what are your symptoms? I've been driving about 50/50 road and track with my 2 997S cars (07 then 09) and have had zero brake issues. I run stock pads and rotors on the street, pagid yellow 29s on the track. Upgraded fluid to Castrol SRF once a year in the early spring (no bleeding / flushing).

Sport pad, Blues, etc. are all going to squeal and won't really do anything for you on the street.

I suppose it would help us help you figure out what's wrong with your current S brakes if you told us what was wrong with the "feel". Have you had a shop or your dealer investigate?

alexb76

Porsche stock brakes have a GREAT FEEL! They are as solid as any other car I've driven and I am not sure what your setup is lacking.

One thing I noticed once was after a brake flush, the brake got softer due to probably air bubbles in the lines, a re-flush fixed that problem and brakes are even more solid using Motul 600 brake fluid, but I think stock fluid would just be fine.

So, before doing any upgrade I'd first have the brakes checked out and at most, do a flush.

PS. Actually I've heard from many that steel stock brakes have better feel than PCCB! So, if the issue is feel, definitely stock brakes are fine.

wwest

Find a way to disable ABS and practice "threshold" braking.

IMMHO ABS should remain inop unless the stability control system activates thereby indicating the car is not following the proper/correct "line".

But then I would also vote for rear braking ONLY (on initial application) unless ABS (or VSC) activates or a preset level of brake fluid pressure (moderate to hard braking) is reached.

tcouture

+1 on doing a fluid change

Shoes with thinner soles, Pagid 4-2-1 ("sport" pads), and SS brake hoses could be all be options but, without really knowing what it is you are trying to change, it is hard to make any recommendation.

Can you expand a bit more on what "feeling" you would like to change?

Are we talking about the "oh sh*t, I've just been tagged by a law enforcement officer with a laser and I can't slow down from 140 mph quick enough" feeling, or the "I am going so fast in that turn that I am going to crap in my pants" feeling? .

T.

pcostinha

I think what ross74're saying is the same problem I have.
When I put the car on the track have heating problems with the brakes, such that the calipers that are black in origin, they now have a bluish color ...
The OEM pads when heat a bit more have a prohibitively high wear but they still hang.
You know some pads that are good in track and also hang well on the road? (a good compromise)

Skibum

The amount of heat generated is directly proportional to the amount of braking force.
Regardless of the pad, your calipers will still bake.

pcostinha

My problem is that I have the defect of the brake later and as always I am confident braking, brake on the last but very strong.
In track I can make better time than the 997.2 4S ... and I'm no pilot

alexb76

OP isn' complaining about braking on track, he said he likes to upgrade the*feeling* of his brakes, which I assume means he feels they're not as solid, which might be due to fluid.

IMGT3

Ross;

Just want to jump in and reinforce some points.

• Brake Pad/caliper/rotor temperatures can easily reach 400° and much higher at a DE.
• Stock brake fluid boils near that point causing air bubbles in the lines and soft brakes
• At material on stock pads is very good, but is less aggressive than performance aftermarket pads (Pagid/Hawk/Carbotech/others). Specifically it's not as dense and may have softer compounds. Hence, brake pressure and friction, along with the higher temperatures can cause premature wear of the pad and a softer pedal.
• Stock brake lines are designed for street compounds/fluids with light track or autocross. 20 - 30 minute DE sessions can generate 400° to 600° temperatures at the rotor.

One member suggested finding out if there was anything wrong with your brakes. That's the first place to start. But after checking things out, and with a clean bill of health, if you still find you're having problems I would recommend The following steps.

• Upgrade your brake lines to stainless steel or braided. Estimated cost $110
• Upgrade your brake fluid to an ATE Blue or Motul, SRF or RS683 are the top two fluids in the market. (But you pay for it)
• Select a pad that has good cold temperature (100°) and high temperature (800°) performance characteristics that is low noise/dust/corrosion. I mention corrosion simply because many performance pads have a very high metallic content, that can cause wheel and body damage if not cleaned off quickly after a track day. Two good suggestions are Hawk HP plus and carbotech AX6 ($175-$215 per pair for front brakes).

That should take care of your problem until you become a track rat. then you can get into all sorts of product that will change the character of your car.

As a PCA nationally certified instructor and in the business of selling brakes, etc... I've seen a lot of combinations. But what I've laid out for you is one that you can be confident in, if after getting your stock system checked out you are still not satisfied.

Chuck

utkinpol

BTW i did a DE yesterday with those cheap EBC yellowstuff pads in front and pagid yellow in rear - it feels and works acceptably fine. definitely less initial bite than with pagid yellows in front but overall feel was OK, braking was pretty controllable and no fading.
and they almost do not squeak on a street now. much,much quieter than pagids.

ross74

Thanks for all the feedback.
My brakes seem to be in fine health.
What I mean by brake feel, is mostly the fact that the pedal is starting to feel a bit mushy after 15,000 miles, and early fade signs start quicker on fast road driving over mountains etc.
I am not saying by any means that I find my brakes are not good, in fact they are the best stock brakes I have ever experienced. However driving the Carrera properly (slow in, fast out) can mean one looks to brake later than usual even on fast road situations.
I am not willing to compromise everyday driving characteristics (squealing, cold performance) so I was maybe looking for a mild road upgrade.

What about GT3 components? Pads and fluids are the same as Carrera S?

Dr.Bill

If the stock pads are OK, why not just upgrade the brake lines and put in new fluid? Or at the very least, flush/bleed the lines.

Sounds like that will address the issues you describe.

utkinpol

steel brke lines on street cars may crack, i was told explicitly NO on that by my mechanic and he demonstrated sampes of such broken brake lines. it is only sutable for a full time track only cars.

stock brake lines are fine. just need to bleed system more often and at least once a season do a complete flush with ABS and clutch lines included.

RonCT

Stock lines are hugely durable and have a mesh within the multiple layers (per a Porsche master tech that filled me in on their construction). There may be no functional difference between stock and "stainless".

Nice car Ray, or did you you borrow mine (running downstairs to check the garage)!