pauljosef

I previously made inquiry about this as a reply to an existing thread but, due to recent developments, I need some advice/information.
About a 1 1/2 months ago, my radio started cutting in and out (sound-no sound). After a couple of days of this it went out completely AND the navigation system would not work. The display read a constant "System error, navigation, amplifier unavailable".
Still under warranty, I took it to Porsche. The service advisor called me to tell me I needed a new "unit" (around $4,000) and it was not covered by warranty. The explanation is that there was some minute coffee staining on the facing that indicated the "possibility" of liquid spillage being the cause and that is not covered by warranty. Several discussions with the service manager make it clear that, because of the placement of the driver's cup holder directly over the faceplate of the radio/PCM unit, this situation is common. He tells me that he cannot service the radio because its made by Becker, not Porsche, and if he replaces the unit, sends it in and it DOES show this kind of damage , they will send it back and he will have to "eat it". He can't tell me that spillage is definitely the problem but it might be; he's not allowed to examine it to even diagnose it.
After a month of "planning my lawsuit", the radio comes back on (yesterday) and continues to work. I took it in for their computer diagnostics (which they couldn't do when it was not functioning) and it checks out 100%. If I had confidence that the problem was solved, that it WAS spillage that has now dried out (permanently), I would feel like I'd dodged a bullet. I have a year/55k miles left of warranty and am concerned about the longevity of the unit. I now know not to use the cup holder but feel like I should have been warned about it if the cause and effect is so well-known to Porsche that any malfunction like this is PRESUMED to be caused by this unfortunate design. I love the car but the honeymoon is over. What do you think I should I do?

Eric - Plug Guy

Wait it out. If it reappears, go back in and see what they can do, and make notes of the dates it came back on, all features working, their diagnostic tests showing ok, etc. Probably dried out and should be ok, but no way to know for sure.

JW911

If you end up having to pay for a repair...You should be aware that Becker has a repair service shop located in New Jersey. You can pull the unit out and send it to them for a repair. I did this with my wife's Cayenne. Cost was about $500. Your cost may vary, but according to them $500 was at the higher end of repair for the unit. Good luck.

http://www.beckerautosound.com/Service.html

Alstoy

Great advise JW. Hope this works out for you Paul. Not sure why Porsche puts cup holders in there. I have to concentrate 100% on my driving in this car. In my other cars, I read the newspaper, shave, and text, all while driving. Cheers.

henrysko

^ So true!

Except, I WANT 100% of my attention on this fine machine when driving. That's the reward.

Mspeedster

What were you thinking! Drinking coffee in a Porsche? I'm of the old school mindset that drinking (anything) and driving don't mix. Hence, have never used my cup holders. I don't really care about music either, I'm perfectly fine listening to my exhaust note.

All kidding aside, assuming you've had this car from new, only you know how bad the coffee spill was and the chances that it caused the problem. If it were me, I wouldn't worry about it since it seems to be working again.

JohnAMG

So, how much coffee did you spilled on the PCM???

John

pauljosef

It wasn't such a spill that I really recall it but because of where the cup holder is placed, I don't doubt that it could have occurred.
My big problem is the lack of responsive from the dealership. They can't tell me the what the problem is for certain because Porsche doesn't make the radio OR they won't tell me what I suspect--the positioning of this cup holder is such that this is so common, they just KNOW and don't want to deal with the liability of not clearly warning about it. I re-read the manual and they say not to use the cup holder when the vehicle is in motion (!) and vaguely refer to "damage". To place cup holders where you can't use them safely when you need to (as in while driving) is a design defect that they should CLEARLY warn about (as in point of sale demo) and/or fix. My reading reveals lots of after-market cup holders in the past as though Porsche sought to adapt to market demands and put in a flawed design. It shouldn't be directly over a sensitive/expensive unit which is certain to be damaged. Has anyone heard of similar occurrences?

Zeus993

This brings up an interesting subject of how Porsche dealerships compare to other brands in taking responsibility for our cars. I have been surprised at what they won't cover (a cracked flywheel) yet aftermarket warranties such as EasyCare do. My business partner has a new 335i and soon to receive a 335is and BMW covers EVERTHING. She dropped it off the other day as the oil light came on. They topped it up and washed the car while we had coffee at a local cafe and didn't charge a thing. I am not necessarily convinced Porshce needs to cover our oil BUT it does illustrate just how high other companies have their "service bars" set. Porsche I believe would do well to take note.

yemenmocha

I would probably be content that it works now, but it would irritate me that the whole ordeal happened. Like the BMW story above I have my own, and let's just say there's a high probability another M-car is in my future.

Alstoy

I have a BMW with similar experience, but the service level is not the same as my Porsche dealer. Yes you get the b-2-b coverage at BMW, but the level of personal care is much higher at Porsche. To the original issue at hand-I don't understand why a $4k unit can't withstand a few drops of coffee.

kdurg

Absolute nonsense. Your dealer is making an obvious attempt to get out of covering a warranty repair and stiff you with a $4k bill. ( he can replace it with a reman'd unit for less than $1500 which includes additional warranty )

Early PCM 2.1 versions are known to have intermittent operating issues. Loss of audio and channel presets, power cycling on and off at will, system error messages for amp not avail are all typical symptoms in the MOST loop. This is not caused by a minor coffee spill on a face plate.

There are numerous reported cases on PCM failure to Porsche HQs in Atlanta. Take a stand with your service writer and don't accept anything less than free replacement.

spiderv6

Well, except the dealership isn't on the hook for a single penny, it's PCNA that covers the cost. My experience with my dealer is that they are happy to do anything they possibly can under warranty as PCNA is paying the dealer for the labor costs.

Now, drinking coffee (or any other liquid) in your 911 is, in my opinion, not wise.

simsgw

Because it costs about $17,000 to build the same unit with the weatherproofing that implies. At least. Four to six vertical inches of the stack in a military electronics bay would cost somewhere between that 17k for a simple function to a quarter million and up.

Building things to tolerate abuse is inherent in military design and a few parts of a car. It isn't part of the design philosophy of the entertainment system.

As for the attitude in the owners' manual, Europeans are not real clear how one ever uses a cup holder in a car in any case. Picturing the user parked is a plausible extension of their confusion on this subject. They only stuff them into their cars for our market because dealers in North America insist it costs them sales to not have them. I have never used mine because it implies you first must have a drink in the car, but I suppose someone who'd take a Porsche to a drive-through window for a meal would find them helpful. Of course, then you'd have food in the car as well, which calls for an [eek!] widget but I don't see one in this editor. Where Porsches are concerned, I completely understand the European attitude.

Besides, it hurts my feelings when Cindy laughs at my pretty car, and every time she looks at those odd devices she can't quit giggling. I really prefer to keep them hidden. You see, her NSX had perfectly serviceable cupholders... on the center console behind your elbow position while driving. Behind. That meant you couldn't shift while a drink was in the holder, but even parked somewhere you'd have to get on your knees facing backward to use the holder unless you were the size and flexibility of a ten-year-old. That's what any exotic owner wants: food, drink, and a ten-year-old in close proximity to the leather. And the electronics stack.

Cindy always insisted they were there for the back seat passengers in the sedan they stole the design from. (The NSX has no more space behind the seats than a Cayman.) So the bottom line is that it satisfies her to laugh at mine being up front but still being just as ridiculous.

Let's face it, folks. "Cup holder" and "sports car" do not fit in the same sentence, let alone the same driving experience.

Gary

Mike in CA

I agree with Gary completely. I've never used the cupholder in any Porsche I've ever owned that had one, and can't imagine what kind of desperate situation I'd have to be in to do so.