Slow cranking after running
07-11-2012 | 11:31 PM
#46
Racer
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 479
Likes: 14
From: Phoenix East Valley
Yeah that cable is definitely tucked way up in there but really the maintenance is not "hard", just tedious because of everything you need to remove to get to it. Not unlike some aircraft I have worked on where the engineers didn't think about how parts might need to be removed in order to maintain and fix them. 
07-16-2012 | 12:33 PM
#47
Banned
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,260
Likes: 0
From: Nashville, TN
Had the car on the charger this week and drove my car for 2.5 hours yesterday. Stopped into Starbucks and came out....the car barely started. Had the car in the dealership last week and they said nothing was wrong.
Question: Does the issue with the cable Alternator, Battery, Starter effect the 2008 model? Dealership said I have upgraded cable.
Question: Does the issue with the cable Alternator, Battery, Starter effect the 2008 model? Dealership said I have upgraded cable.
07-16-2012 | 12:52 PM
#48
Banned
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,260
Likes: 0
From: Nashville, TN
Per Porsche's technical bulletin.
Issue: Battery discharged and/or will not charge properly. Voltage drop due to alternator-starter-battery harness damage at starter terminal. This issue is often mis-diagnosed as a bad battery, bad alternator, or bad starter, and these parts are often replaced in multiple repair attempts before the harness is determined to be the cause of the issue.
Before ordering or replacing other parts, have the car professionally inspected. Check the voltage drop between the alternator and battery. Bring the car to normal operating temperature. Turn on as many power consumers as possible (AC, headlights, radio, defroster, etc.). Use the same grounding point for the following voltage measurements:
- Measure the voltage at the "B+" terminal on the alternator.
- Measure the voltage at the battery positive terminal.
If there is a voltage drop of greater than 0.5 volts between the alternator and the battery, and all of the connection points are tight, check the harness terminal at starter. It is possible that the crimps on the starter terminal where the two cables are joined together incorrectly, causing an excessive voltage drop between the alternator and the battery. This voltage drop does not allow the battery to charge properly, and as a result, the battery will continually discharge until it will no longer start the vehicle. There may be no visible damage to the harness, and more measurements may be necessary to determine which cable or part of the cable is responsible for the voltage drop.
Issue: Battery discharged and/or will not charge properly. Voltage drop due to alternator-starter-battery harness damage at starter terminal. This issue is often mis-diagnosed as a bad battery, bad alternator, or bad starter, and these parts are often replaced in multiple repair attempts before the harness is determined to be the cause of the issue.
Before ordering or replacing other parts, have the car professionally inspected. Check the voltage drop between the alternator and battery. Bring the car to normal operating temperature. Turn on as many power consumers as possible (AC, headlights, radio, defroster, etc.). Use the same grounding point for the following voltage measurements:
- Measure the voltage at the "B+" terminal on the alternator.
- Measure the voltage at the battery positive terminal.
If there is a voltage drop of greater than 0.5 volts between the alternator and the battery, and all of the connection points are tight, check the harness terminal at starter. It is possible that the crimps on the starter terminal where the two cables are joined together incorrectly, causing an excessive voltage drop between the alternator and the battery. This voltage drop does not allow the battery to charge properly, and as a result, the battery will continually discharge until it will no longer start the vehicle. There may be no visible damage to the harness, and more measurements may be necessary to determine which cable or part of the cable is responsible for the voltage drop.
Last edited by Spokane5150; 07-16-2012 at 01:38 PM.
07-16-2012 | 12:56 PM
#49
Racer
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 328
Likes: 0
From: Houston, Texas, USA
I have a 2007 and sometimes experience slow starting. As others have said first thing in the morning going to work it spins fast or when leaving the office at the end of the day. However sometimes it's slow for example when I stop to check my post on the way home. I use the car regularly so don't use the trickle charger.
I'll have to mention this to the dealer at the next service and hopefully they'll check/upgrade the cable and replace starter motor whilst it's still under warranty.
What I do notice is that if I stall the engine, such as not using enough revs when trying to reverse quietly into my garage, the car REALLY struggles to turn over (I could almost turn it over faster by hand!).
John
I'll have to mention this to the dealer at the next service and hopefully they'll check/upgrade the cable and replace starter motor whilst it's still under warranty.
What I do notice is that if I stall the engine, such as not using enough revs when trying to reverse quietly into my garage
, the car REALLY struggles to turn over (I could almost turn it over faster by hand!).John
07-16-2012 | 01:44 PM
#50
Pro
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 660
Likes: 14
From: Las Vegas, Nevada
Hey Spokane5150,
If the dealer checked the voltage drop and said it was 'minimal' (ie. less than .5 volts) and they further claimed you had the upgraded cable then what do they suspect (ie. battery, alternator, etc)? Other than the voltage drop test and Porsche build records I don't see how you can determine if you have a 'acceptable' harness. You certainly can't inspect (ie. eyeball the part number) it since it's really hidden.
If you're still under warranty and/or CPO I'd press the Porsche dealer for 'satisfaction' if you continually have slow cranking (especially when the motor compartment is nice and hot). If your out of warranty then stop by a competent & experienced independent Porsche service shop for an assessment.
Keep us in the loop.
GL!
If the dealer checked the voltage drop and said it was 'minimal' (ie. less than .5 volts) and they further claimed you had the upgraded cable then what do they suspect (ie. battery, alternator, etc)? Other than the voltage drop test and Porsche build records I don't see how you can determine if you have a 'acceptable' harness. You certainly can't inspect (ie. eyeball the part number) it since it's really hidden.
If you're still under warranty and/or CPO I'd press the Porsche dealer for 'satisfaction' if you continually have slow cranking (especially when the motor compartment is nice and hot). If your out of warranty then stop by a competent & experienced independent Porsche service shop for an assessment.
Keep us in the loop.
GL!
I had my car in for Service last week to check a charging issue and the Tech said my car had the new harness so my car didn't apply. So do the 2008 C2S cars have this problem below? My car was on the charger all week and when I drove it yesterday for two hours the car would hardly start.
Per Porsche's technical bulletin.
Issue: Battery discharged and/or will not charge properly. Voltage drop due to alternator-starter-battery harness damage at starter terminal. This issue is often mis-diagnosed as a bad battery, bad alternator, or bad starter, and these parts are often replaced in multiple repair attempts before the harness is determined to be the cause of the issue.
Before ordering or replacing other parts, have the car professionally inspected. Check the voltage drop between the alternator and battery. Bring the car to normal operating temperature. Turn on as many power consumers as possible (AC, headlights, radio, defroster, etc.). Use the same grounding point for the following voltage measurements:
- Measure the voltage at the "B+" terminal on the alternator.
- Measure the voltage at the battery positive terminal.
If there is a voltage drop of greater than 0.5 volts between the alternator and the battery, and all of the connection points are tight, check the harness terminal at starter. It is possible that the crimps on the starter terminal where the two cables are joined together incorrectly, causing an excessive voltage drop between the alternator and the battery. This voltage drop does not allow the battery to charge properly, and as a result, the battery will continually discharge until it will no longer start the vehicle. There may be no visible damage to the harness, and more measurements may be necessary to determine which cable or part of the cable is responsible for the voltage drop.
Per Porsche's technical bulletin.
Issue: Battery discharged and/or will not charge properly. Voltage drop due to alternator-starter-battery harness damage at starter terminal. This issue is often mis-diagnosed as a bad battery, bad alternator, or bad starter, and these parts are often replaced in multiple repair attempts before the harness is determined to be the cause of the issue.
Before ordering or replacing other parts, have the car professionally inspected. Check the voltage drop between the alternator and battery. Bring the car to normal operating temperature. Turn on as many power consumers as possible (AC, headlights, radio, defroster, etc.). Use the same grounding point for the following voltage measurements:
- Measure the voltage at the "B+" terminal on the alternator.
- Measure the voltage at the battery positive terminal.
If there is a voltage drop of greater than 0.5 volts between the alternator and the battery, and all of the connection points are tight, check the harness terminal at starter. It is possible that the crimps on the starter terminal where the two cables are joined together incorrectly, causing an excessive voltage drop between the alternator and the battery. This voltage drop does not allow the battery to charge properly, and as a result, the battery will continually discharge until it will no longer start the vehicle. There may be no visible damage to the harness, and more measurements may be necessary to determine which cable or part of the cable is responsible for the voltage drop.
07-16-2012 | 06:58 PM
#52
Banned
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,260
Likes: 0
From: Nashville, TN
07-16-2012 | 11:22 PM
#53
Instructor
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 117
Likes: 1
From: Toronto , Canada
Had that happen to me , we changed the alternater cable and the starter , problem solved dont know if it was the starter or the cable but since they where in there told them to change the starter most of the cost is labour , crancks like a mad woman cold or hot , good luck
07-16-2012 | 11:50 PM
#54
Rennlist Member
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 308
Likes: 40
i am getting this:
Porsche Access System - PAS
Module Identification
Part Number 997.618.172.12
Diagnosis Number 0103
Current Fault Codes
8004
Terminal 50
Value below lower limit value
8050
Electronic steering column lock internal fault
Implausible signal
When i told the dealer about the issue they told me it's the battery, replaced battery same thing. I mentioned to him that besides the slow cranking, i sometimes have to put in the key turn it and i get nothing. I do that 3-4 times and then is starts. This can't be normal.
John
Porsche Access System - PAS
Module Identification
Part Number 997.618.172.12
Diagnosis Number 0103
Current Fault Codes
8004
Terminal 50
Value below lower limit value
8050
Electronic steering column lock internal fault
Implausible signal
When i told the dealer about the issue they told me it's the battery, replaced battery same thing. I mentioned to him that besides the slow cranking, i sometimes have to put in the key turn it and i get nothing. I do that 3-4 times and then is starts. This can't be normal.
John
10-01-2013 | 02:40 AM
#57
Rennlist Member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,657
Likes: 266
From: Central Jersey
Per Porsche's technical bulletin.
Issue: Battery discharged and/or will not charge properly. Voltage drop due to alternator-starter-battery harness damage at starter terminal. This issue is often mis-diagnosed as a bad battery, bad alternator, or bad starter, and these parts are often replaced in multiple repair attempts before the harness is determined to be the cause of the issue.
Before ordering or replacing other parts, have the car professionally inspected. Check the voltage drop between the alternator and battery. Bring the car to normal operating temperature. Turn on as many power consumers as possible (AC, headlights, radio, defroster, etc.). Use the same grounding point for the following voltage measurements:
- Measure the voltage at the "B+" terminal on the alternator.
- Measure the voltage at the battery positive terminal.
If there is a voltage drop of greater than 0.5 volts between the alternator and the battery, and all of the connection points are tight, check the harness terminal at starter. It is possible that the crimps on the starter terminal where the two cables are joined together incorrectly, causing an excessive voltage drop between the alternator and the battery. This voltage drop does not allow the battery to charge properly, and as a result, the battery will continually discharge until it will no longer start the vehicle. There may be no visible damage to the harness, and more measurements may be necessary to determine which cable or part of the cable is responsible for the voltage drop.
Issue: Battery discharged and/or will not charge properly. Voltage drop due to alternator-starter-battery harness damage at starter terminal. This issue is often mis-diagnosed as a bad battery, bad alternator, or bad starter, and these parts are often replaced in multiple repair attempts before the harness is determined to be the cause of the issue.
Before ordering or replacing other parts, have the car professionally inspected. Check the voltage drop between the alternator and battery. Bring the car to normal operating temperature. Turn on as many power consumers as possible (AC, headlights, radio, defroster, etc.). Use the same grounding point for the following voltage measurements:
- Measure the voltage at the "B+" terminal on the alternator.
- Measure the voltage at the battery positive terminal.
If there is a voltage drop of greater than 0.5 volts between the alternator and the battery, and all of the connection points are tight, check the harness terminal at starter. It is possible that the crimps on the starter terminal where the two cables are joined together incorrectly, causing an excessive voltage drop between the alternator and the battery. This voltage drop does not allow the battery to charge properly, and as a result, the battery will continually discharge until it will no longer start the vehicle. There may be no visible damage to the harness, and more measurements may be necessary to determine which cable or part of the cable is responsible for the voltage drop.
Please advise...
10-01-2013 | 03:52 AM
#58
Pro
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 660
Likes: 14
From: Las Vegas, Nevada
Spokane - do you have the number of the TSB you're quoting here? I'm getting a bit of a runaround from my dealer. They're telling me they can't replicate the issue, so they can't fix it. If I can tell them an actual TSB #, maybe they'll take my word for it.
Please advise...
Please advise...
12-31-2013 | 07:05 PM
#59
Rennlist Member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,657
Likes: 266
From: Central Jersey
That's simply a crock of BS from the service department. They know that a new harness has replaced the old one due to a design flaw. The motor must be hot for the problem to appear. It's simply a function of increased resistance when the harness and it's connections get warm. I'd get in touch w/ Porsche's Regional Technical Support for your area and have them handle the matter.
I just got back from the dealer. Good news! They "retested" the battery-starter-alternator according to the TSB and found a .7 voltage drop. I put "retested" quotes because I don't think they did it right the first time a few months ago, but anyway...
Any drop >.5 volts indicates a bad alternator-starter-battery harness, so they replaced it under my CPO warranty.
I tried the startup a few times when I got home and I think it's noticeably better. We'll see as time goes by, but I think this problem is now solved.
Thanks for all the help on this about the TSB and procedures!
09-29-2015 | 12:48 PM
#60
Rennlist Member
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 156
Likes: 0
Okay guys...
New 2007 997S owner here - just purchased from a fellow rennlister and took delivery of the car yesterday. I'm having this exact same issue.
Cranks fine when cold (albeit without much authority), but after a little joy ride it will hardly start up.I was going to replace the battery today, but now after seeing this thread I'm thinking it could be a bad wiring loom.
I called a Porsche specialist indy shop and the guy I talked to said he had never heard of that before. I also called a Porsche dealer in the area and the guy I talked to hadn't heard of it either, but he started going off about how it's probably a bad alternator if the battery isn't staying charged. Not liking how this is going already...
Should I change the battery first or is it pretty much certain that it's the wiring loom issue? I feel like if the alternator or battery was bad, it would have trouble starting when cold and not when hot. I just don't see how the battery or alternator could be bad when it's better after sitting for a while. Doesn't make sense.
What say you? Should I go pay the Porsche dealer $140 to diagnose the problem after I had to explain over the phone how they would do it or should I spend the $140 on a battery to start?
New 2007 997S owner here - just purchased from a fellow rennlister and took delivery of the car yesterday. I'm having this exact same issue.
Cranks fine when cold (albeit without much authority), but after a little joy ride it will hardly start up.I was going to replace the battery today, but now after seeing this thread I'm thinking it could be a bad wiring loom.
I called a Porsche specialist indy shop and the guy I talked to said he had never heard of that before. I also called a Porsche dealer in the area and the guy I talked to hadn't heard of it either, but he started going off about how it's probably a bad alternator if the battery isn't staying charged. Not liking how this is going already...
Should I change the battery first or is it pretty much certain that it's the wiring loom issue? I feel like if the alternator or battery was bad, it would have trouble starting when cold and not when hot. I just don't see how the battery or alternator could be bad when it's better after sitting for a while. Doesn't make sense.
What say you? Should I go pay the Porsche dealer $140 to diagnose the problem after I had to explain over the phone how they would do it or should I spend the $140 on a battery to start?