OldGuy

Mspeedster said:
I have driven Z06's from the C5 version to the C6 version. I was hugely disappointed in the car. The C5 was literally a bucket of bolts after a couple years. Every squeak rattle and roll reminded my WAY too much of my Camaro when I was a teen ager. The 2009 Z06 which I drove was almost the same price as the 2009 C2S, at that point there is no comparison nor any bang for the buck. And if StevePow doesnt like his 911 interior the Z06 looks like a Chevy Vega inside. The Z06 is just a compromise and your settling for less than the 997.2
GTR- Look up TRANSMISSION FAILURE in the dictionary and there is picture of the GTR. Its price point is 70k and up Very Close to the 911. Its horrible design and video game instrumentation is more suited for Gran Turismo 5 for Playstation. And without launch control its not that fast.
Really those cars arent in the same league as the much IMPROVED 911 PDK.

The 911 C2S PDK is the MOST bang for the buck in ANY car I have ever driven including Ferrari.
Its the best car on the planet right now, for the price. Again I was going to buy a 08 911 GT3 RS.
I was SO shocked by the first test drive of the 911 C2S sport chrono that I couldnt get it out of my head until I bought it. It was so fast its just incredible. I should have taped the 996 TT race in which the C2S beat it by quite a margin.
I have had some great cars, but I have hit a record with this 911. I have had this one longer than the TT, than the 996 GT3 Manthey monster, and longer than the SCHWEET 997.1 GT3. And right now
it is staying in my garage.

If you havent driven the 997.2 PDK C2S sport chrono then you have no idea. I am guessing a 911 PDK C2S would dispatch a Z06 or a GTR pretty easily.

Again its SHOCKING even if you are a GT3 bum like me. Its the ultimate sleeper too. No BIG WING or gaudy wheels or anything.

stevepow

I have no idea how it compares to Corvette. Don't care really. But it does not compare with BMW up to at least year model 2007 which was my last one - no funky painted plastic there and whatever vinyl was in it (seat backs only I guess) was durable. And not up to our 2005 Lexus.

As mentioned, the soft paint surfaces are super fragile. I don't think anyone could argue that. And the vinyl on the seats on my car is already tearing on one side where the knife-sharp seat belt latch, next to the center console, cuts it when the seat is tilted forward. And the passenger seat is tearing along the edge of the circular silver/volcano cover at the outside of the seat where it hinges forward - apparently because something inside the seat protrudes enough on that side to act like scissors when the seat is tilted forward. The drivers side seat does not have the protrusion or issue. Maybe a seat defect, but that vinyl sure gave up quickly without a fight.

PCNA is going to repair both seats, but the engineering and the quality of the materials doesn't give me much long term confidence. Once these are fixed, I'll engineer my own preventive solution - but how much of that needs to be done? I'll probably order a leather center console or have mine painted because I don't' expect the surface to last - not super expensive, but I'd rather feel like it is a choice rather than necessity.

Not really expecting it to be a luxury showcase at all, but expecting it to hold up as well as a Jeep Cherokee we had back in the 90s that basically looked new inside when we sold it - the leather seats and vinyl surfaces had no wear @ 50K miles.

Maybe I just got bad luck on this one, but I have had a lot of cars and none had interior material failure like this - ever. Or maybe all cars from 2009 and on are made more cheaply than what I am used to with 2007 and back.

I love this car - it is great at what it does, but I have to call a spade a spade: the interior could be made of more durable materials.

Spectro28

Alas, no arguments, just the waiting room. I've been told it's the fact that there are so many jurors poised to hear cases that helps the prosecutors arrange for settlement of so many cases with plea bargains...

Glad to have been of service, though it's never a pretty thing.

winkingchef

Operating profit = (SalePrice - MfgCost)*NoCarsSold - EngineeringDevelopmentCost

If NoCarsSold is small and EngineeringDevelopmentCost is large, you need a larger delta between sale price and cost to get the same operating profit.

Kuhan

I think the build quality of Porsches is typified by the fact that over 2/3 of all Porsches made are still on the road.

Tcc1999

^I think Land Rover makes a similar claim (90% of all manufactured are still "in service"?) and I don't believe that Land Rover (whoever owns it now) and build quality are two words that typically go together - at least they weren't when I owned one.

Mike in CA

You know how the Brits have a different way of saying things sometimes. By "in service" they must mean exactly that; it's in the shop, being "serviced".

ADias

You got it! And EngineeringDevelopmentCost=Weissach which is what we value and costs money.

Quadcammer

lol, I think you've lost your mind.

The z06 or GTR would slap a C2s around.

Its simply a matter of power to weight.

The Z06 has 125bhp more and weighs about the same. The GTR has only 70bhp more, and weighs a lot more, but is underrated in a big way.

The C2s is a good car, but bang for the buck it isn't.

$94k msrp with PDK? Thats about $20k more than the Z06 or GTR

Mspeedster

I know both the GT-R and Z06 have flaws, but as I said from a "pure" performance perspective they both offer better bang for the buck. The GT-R has easily beaten the 997.1TT in every car mag I have read and even the 997.2TT in some cases. The latest issue of Road&Track has the Z06 with a better lap time around Laguna Seca vs. the 997.2 Turbo S with PDK. Both the GT-R and Z06 can be had for about the price of a C2S or even less.

So no, a PDK C2S would NOT dispatch a Z06 or GTR.

Mike in CA

It depends. Near the end of the season a guy brought both his GTR and 2003 GT2 (456hp) to one of our PCA autocrosses. The GTR was meaningfully slower than my PDK equipped C2S; in fact it barely made it into the top 10. The same guy was quicker in his GT2 than the GTR, despite it's HP and awd advantage.

The GTR is fast, and would no doubt do better on a road course, but from an observer's viewpoint, it seemed to handle more like a sedan than a sports car. Plus, IMO, it's fairly ugly. I sure wouldn't trade my car for one, regardless of price.

KBS911

Huh?................. You and Miley need to stay away from that salvia. I've owned 3 Vettes, 2 Z06's and 3 Porsches, so I can speak with some legitimate frame of reference...............Put down that pipe sir.......step away from the bong!

StanThePorscheFan

100% correct!
I once needed an accelerometer for my 964. Stealership wanted some crazy money for it ($1800 or so, I don't remember). Parts guy (older gentelman) said that part sold for $120 ten years before. Now that Porsche is running very low on stock and this part is in demand, the price went up more than ten times.

Maybe 911s cost so much 'cause its the longest production vehicle in the world?

geof

Gee, I didn't realize Porsche derives their prices using a CPFF structure.

ADias

Sure. They are government contractors.