Spectro28

Hi All --

Been thinking about my new car (doh), and continuing to appreciate it as I get to know it. It's a 2010 C2S that I've written about in other posts.

Today's thought: I am wondering where the cost is in this car. Base MSRP on a new '11 is US$90,500. That's a lot of cost. I am not at all arguing value -- I am curious about what the technical/engineering/manufacturing/marketing equations are behind these wonders of the road.

A few weeks ago, I watched the "Ultimate Factory" show on the building of a 911. Impressive, certainly, but in reflection, despite the breathless narration, they didn't really show the cost of manufacturing.

I installed a hardwire for my new Escort 9500ix, roughly following the Coochas post on teamspeed http://www.teamspeed.com/forums/997-...smartcord.html. Nice post, Coochas - thanks!

It was my first work on the car, at ~1400 miles.

I was impressed with the quality of materials -- in particular, the weatherstrip material along the door frame -- whoa. Seemed very pliant, very heavy duty, much more so than other cars I've had. Very fitted. Also very impressed with the accurate work of the trim piece over the fuse box assembly and the dressing and routing of the wire bundles. The 3 screws to R&R that trim piece went into metal, I think -- not another piece of plastic, and not into a little spring-nut, like many other cars.

Is the whole car like this? Is that the source of the cost?

Is the cost of the car in the engine, in the tolerances of machined moving parts?

Also wondered -- is a base Cayman S, at US$61,500 MSRP, that different in these particulars? Where's the $30K delta?

Very interested in your experience and thoughts!

Cheers -
Marc

Fahrer

Porsches are expensive because they use many expensive techniques like aluminum shock absorbers and flat six engines. 911s are even more expensive simply because they are 911s. The 911 is the icon. It has the history. It has defined the brand.

MLindgren

Much of the cost is due to being a relatively low volume of cars built.

I also think the profit margin in a Porsche is higher than many other mass produced cars.

w00tPORSCHE

+ 1 for that. Many will tell u that a porsche 911 is never about the numbers ie. the dollar amount and practicality.

Tcc1999

Brand. Why do you think they so vigorously (e.g. Coochas experience) defend it. Dilute the brand, dilute the perceived value. Not to be cynical, but unless all that wonderful technology is hand-made by virgins on an island in the Med. where streets are paved in gold . . . the price, as reflective of the technological value of the parts, is hard for my pea brain to grasp.

That said, yeah, I'd buy another one.

Kuhan

I'm recalling from memory so I may be completely wrong but I read an article some time ago that said Porsche is the most profitable car company per car sold - something like 30% profit.

But I also remember reading somewhere else that Porsche made such a large profit on the stock market (something to do with VW shares) and not the cars!

OldGuy

Before the credit crash in sept 08 Porsche made about 9 Billion Dollars a year. They made most of
that through stocks and funds. A small portion of that came from Car Sales. They didnt care
at the time that they didnt sell many cars.
AFTER the crash they were over leveraged, and HAD to sell cars. Thats why their deal to take over
VW failed and in reality VW went from hunted to Hunter and bought Porsche.

FrankyV

The fixed costs of tooling for the manufacture of a car consitutes a huge portion of the manufacturing costs. Even development of the cheapest car involves a huge investment in tooling to make the parts. Arguably, a cheaper car has marginally less expensive tooling, but the biggest factor is spreading the cost of tooling over many more units sold than an expensive car. Labor costs are also higher on a more expensive car, because certain manufacturing steps are still done by hand, like the engine assembly on a Porsche, rather than an assembly line.

OldGuy

You asked the wrong question. You should be asking "why does Porsche give so much performance for so little money"

When you consider the class of performance of the car, to buy another car in the same range is going to be 50%-100% MORE in cost. Cars that have around the same performance of the C2S PDK, you have to go Ferrari, Audi R8 or R10, Lamborghini, and I am not talking the 3.8 0-60 time I am talking the whole package. This 997.2 C2S is quite abit faster than the Audi R8 (v8) and close to $40k LESS than the Audi. Carreras dont go to the drage strip much (there is a cult group of racers that take the TT to the drag strip)
But you will find 911s on your local race track.

There you will find the low weight
the great handling, the excellent acceleration, the over all great reliability,the power of the motor, and some of the best braking systems in the world. Not to mention the iconic styling. I dont believe there is an other car in the same price range that does all that. Your going to have to drop another 50-100K to get that. Not only that, when you understand the deals Porsche is doing right now its even a LARGER value. I got my 103K 2009 PDK 911 S for $90k OUT THE DOOR. I just dont see another car out there for that amount of money.

You can whine about some American stuff that is coming out now but they all lack is some performance area of the 911 and or weigh another 1000 lbs.
Even the Great 996 and 997.1 GT3s have problems with the PDK C2S on the track. I raced a 996 TT chipped to 500 hp (with the TT owner driving MY car) and beat it easily.
I could have had another GT3 or RS but this current 911 S is the best value I have ever had in a car.
With SPort Chrono its 3 cars in ONE!! In regular mode it gets great gas milage and drives like a mercedes.
In Sport mode its very GT3 like in sharper handing and Acceleration . In Sport Plus its a track animal. You get 3 very distinct cars in one package.

THATS what you should be asking yourself.

soverystout

+1 good memory. Porsche, (before the global financial meltdown) was making more margin per car than any other manufacturer. They were making roughly $20k per 911. My project for my MBA capstone class was a soup to nuts business breakdown of Porsche.

Their stock price skyrocketed do to how many shares of VW they owned when VWs stock was hitting all time highs. Without the financial crisis, history would be different, Porsche would own VW instead of the reverse.

ADias

The cost of a Porsche is in my view Weissach. Worth every penny.

There are many cheaper cars but most are not designed in Weissach. Although some are - VW - and those are worth a look too for a second/third car.

stevepow

When I watched that show about building 911s - that answered the question for me. It is an incredible process melding hand-built and robotics, each used where it makes the most sense.

If you have not seen that "Ultimate Factories - Porsche", Google it and check it out. I think it will help answer your question.

Marine Blue

Lets compare the 911 to the Corvette Z06. Both have similar performance and capabilities although they do achieve the same goal very differently.

Z06
Higher costs are due to exotic materials of construction to reduce weight.
Fit and finish is below par
materials of construction for the interior are below par
higher production numbers help reduce cost - this is debatable since the Z06 isn't nearly as high volume as the normal Corvette.

911 S
Higher costs are due to fit and finish on the overall car
Better Materials of Construction for improved wear resistance and overall better appearance.
Low production numbers.

I imagine both cars maintain tight tolerances for the engine and both companies spend more on suspension and other technology to help the car perform better.

stevepow

I'd say this is true for both cars - actually, I have no idea about the Z06, but compared to BMWs, Lexus, and other cars we have owned, the interior materials in a "Standard" 911 are kind of cheap and flimsy. Getting the leather interior helps, but the non-leather bits are still not durable. This is the most disappointing aspect of my 911. It is probably the least durable interior of any car I have ever owned at any price point - this after only 9K miles is worrisome.

Mspeedster

I do agree with you that Porsche does provide a lot of performance for the money compared to other European makes, especially if you compare Ferrari. But then Ferrari has its own mystique that justifies the price.

OTOH, the Nissan GTR and the Vette Z06 (as already mentioned) provide more bang for the buck from a pure performance viewpoint.