Questions for those with Turbo and Carrera experience--
12-02-2010, 06:09 PM
#121
Rennlist Member
12-02-2010, 06:12 PM
#122
Race Car
I'd put a $100 on her too. Really, I don't care. But silly things like a turbo has too much power for street use? How can that not be considered bashing? Or did you not read that part?
12-02-2010, 06:18 PM
#123
I prefer RWD and NA, but I, for one, am not a Turbo detractor and find the Turbo owners zeal silly.
Of course the Turbo can and should be faster on the track, especially with an average driver. 4WD can make an average driver look good and there's no issue with that. PAG put 4WD on the Turbo to tame it and make it accessible to the average driver. Now, the GT2 is a different question.
Of course the Turbo can and should be faster on the track, especially with an average driver. 4WD can make an average driver look good and there's no issue with that. PAG put 4WD on the Turbo to tame it and make it accessible to the average driver. Now, the GT2 is a different question.
sorry to interupt.....
cheers
12-02-2010, 06:31 PM
#124
Rennlist Member
I did see some later posts talking about linear vs torquey power delivery, but that's not really the same thing and doesn't really qualify as turbo bashing to me. It's just a discussion of the differences. I also saw some posts where people felt like they couldn't utilize the turbo's power safely on the street -- which also doesn't sound like turbo bashing to me.
12-02-2010, 07:52 PM
#125
Race Director
That just means that I very rarely find places where I can fully extend my PDK equipped C2S away from the track, so having even more HP would be pretty much irrrelevant to me. And for the kind of tracking I do (autoX), handling, balance, responsiveness, and technique are at least as if not more important than horsepower anyway. If someone drives on the street in an area where they can really let go with 500+ HP, (or even a meagre 385) and the 188 MPH top speed or 4 sec 0-60 time of a C2S aren't good enough, then they are very fortunate!
This isn't saying that the TT has too much power, only that IMO the C2S or GT3, for example, have enough. It's a subtle but important distinction. And it certainly isn't, in any way, a bashing of the TT.
Last edited by Mike in CA; 12-02-2010 at 10:03 PM. Reason: syntax
12-02-2010, 08:26 PM
#126
Nordschleife Master
No NA fan in this forum is bashing the Turbo. However Turbo zealots do bash the NA. That fact is the reason for this overly long exchange. The same thing happens when the topic is PDK. If someone favors PDK the 6spd zealots quickly come bashing PDK.
12-02-2010, 08:44 PM
#127
Rennlist Member
Without question, the 911 Turbo is and always has been a stunning performer and the "top of the line" 911. If you love the rush of acceleration, real torque from a flat six, and silky, ultimate speed, it's very, very hard to beat. The good news it is an option for those who like all of the above.
But the OP seems to be getting at something other than the crown of "ultimate." He seems to be getting at what people prefer, and if those with experience in Turbos ever return to the simpler 911. I've spent a lot of time in a lot of Turbos and a lot of NA 911s from every era, with an emphasis on the last 15 years. So, to the OP's question, I go back and forth depending on the model year and Porsche's execution. In 2002~, I (personally) preferred the Turbo. In 2005 and again in 2007, I (personally) preferred the Carrera. I like Turbo thrust, and I like NA horsepower. But above all, I prize handling.
So, if I had to come up with a general rule of thumb after having been there and done thrust, I'd probably tend towards Carreras over Turbos — because I'm not a power guy and tend to like simple, RWD cars. That's not to say I can't be tempted by the occasional stunningly good AWD and/or turbo car. A few that stick out for me: the early 996 Turbo, Subaru WRX, 997 Werks K1, and Audi R8. But there's a big difference between personal preferences offered on a forum and "absolute truth" — and it's always a bummer when one can't share the former without being told he or she is trying to dish out the latter.
But the OP seems to be getting at something other than the crown of "ultimate." He seems to be getting at what people prefer, and if those with experience in Turbos ever return to the simpler 911. I've spent a lot of time in a lot of Turbos and a lot of NA 911s from every era, with an emphasis on the last 15 years. So, to the OP's question, I go back and forth depending on the model year and Porsche's execution. In 2002~, I (personally) preferred the Turbo. In 2005 and again in 2007, I (personally) preferred the Carrera. I like Turbo thrust, and I like NA horsepower. But above all, I prize handling.
So, if I had to come up with a general rule of thumb after having been there and done thrust, I'd probably tend towards Carreras over Turbos — because I'm not a power guy and tend to like simple, RWD cars. That's not to say I can't be tempted by the occasional stunningly good AWD and/or turbo car. A few that stick out for me: the early 996 Turbo, Subaru WRX, 997 Werks K1, and Audi R8. But there's a big difference between personal preferences offered on a forum and "absolute truth" — and it's always a bummer when one can't share the former without being told he or she is trying to dish out the latter.
12-02-2010, 10:44 PM
#128
Race Car
This is a tell tale quote, let me guess, you have an NA and a PDK? So anyone with a different set up is a "Zealot" and you're the innocent Porsche owner? No wonder you can't see the turbo bashing.
12-02-2010, 10:51 PM
#129
Pro
Thread Starter
Without question, the 911 Turbo is and always has been a stunning performer and the "top of the line" 911. If you love the rush of acceleration, real torque from a flat six, and silky, ultimate speed, it's very, very hard to beat. The good news it is an option for those who like all of the above.
But the OP seems to be getting at something other than the crown of "ultimate." He seems to be getting at what people prefer, and if those with experience in Turbos ever return to the simpler 911. I've spent a lot of time in a lot of Turbos and a lot of NA 911s from every era, with an emphasis on the last 15 years. So, to the OP's question, I go back and forth depending on the model year and Porsche's execution. In 2002~, I (personally) preferred the Turbo. In 2005 and again in 2007, I (personally) preferred the Carrera. I like Turbo thrust, and I like NA horsepower. But above all, I prize handling.
So, if I had to come up with a general rule of thumb after having been there and done thrust, I'd probably tend towards Carreras over Turbos — because I'm not a power guy and tend to like simple, RWD cars. That's not to say I can't be tempted by the occasional stunningly good AWD and/or turbo car. A few that stick out for me: the early 996 Turbo, Subaru WRX, 997 Werks K1, and Audi R8. But there's a big difference between personal preferences offered on a forum and "absolute truth" — and it's always a bummer when one can't share the former without being told he or she is trying to dish out the latter.
But the OP seems to be getting at something other than the crown of "ultimate." He seems to be getting at what people prefer, and if those with experience in Turbos ever return to the simpler 911. I've spent a lot of time in a lot of Turbos and a lot of NA 911s from every era, with an emphasis on the last 15 years. So, to the OP's question, I go back and forth depending on the model year and Porsche's execution. In 2002~, I (personally) preferred the Turbo. In 2005 and again in 2007, I (personally) preferred the Carrera. I like Turbo thrust, and I like NA horsepower. But above all, I prize handling.
So, if I had to come up with a general rule of thumb after having been there and done thrust, I'd probably tend towards Carreras over Turbos — because I'm not a power guy and tend to like simple, RWD cars. That's not to say I can't be tempted by the occasional stunningly good AWD and/or turbo car. A few that stick out for me: the early 996 Turbo, Subaru WRX, 997 Werks K1, and Audi R8. But there's a big difference between personal preferences offered on a forum and "absolute truth" — and it's always a bummer when one can't share the former without being told he or she is trying to dish out the latter.
I'll have to drive other variants, but like you imply it's not necessarily one over the other, it's the cumulative experiences of the various cars you've had that leads you to choose the next one.
12-02-2010, 11:00 PM
#130
Pro
Thread Starter
P.S. We're all old enough and wise enough to know there are only a few "absolute truths" as excmag states (death and taxes being two of them). Here's another: There is no best Porsche!
However, his mentioning "personal preferences" is exactly what I was interested in from the knowledgeable contributors here, but some of the other comments are hilarious and it's easy to separate the wheat from the chaff.
However, his mentioning "personal preferences" is exactly what I was interested in from the knowledgeable contributors here, but some of the other comments are hilarious and it's easy to separate the wheat from the chaff.
12-02-2010, 11:11 PM
#131
Rennlist Member
12-03-2010, 01:33 AM
#132
Rennlist Member
I'm not saying you are wrong, I'm simply saying all the comments I recall were of individual stating their personal preferences. I would like to see what specific statements you consider "bashing".
12-03-2010, 12:47 PM
#134
Sorted a few things out this way (below) after taking a long drive yesterday with this difficult thread in mind.
Say my buddy (who really has a 993) got 997S and I have my Turbo. Why would he get the 997S? Because he has kids' futures to think of, and his wife would kill him for being selfish with >$100K on a freeking car. It's just his situation, his choice.
Does he get a thrill driving my car: yes. Does he want a TT? Yes, who doesn't want more HP/Tq in a sports car? (oops!! some people on RList don't, I forgot!
) Does he go home depressed because he would have a 997S? (in reality a 993) NO EFFN WAY!
Why? Because we're adults - not kids. He loves his current (and future) P-car. What makes him happy makes me happy and vice versa.
What I also noticed on my drive yesterday was my car gives a plentiful amount of never-boring fun with only the right foot! There is so much stuff to play with when large HP/Tq is in reserve.
I burned up some twisty (well-known-hazard-wise) roads I had absolutely no thought of "handling differences make this car disappointing." When hitting overboost all I could think of was a blubbering: I can't imagine how Porsche can build these cars! (any Porsche!). Eventually I see a 1980s SC come the other way! HUGE WAVE AND SMILE! Made my day.
Conclusion: don't give or take anything personally on these boards. When things get "lively" here it's only because misunderstandings are the result of the fact we're not talking face-to-face. We all love our cars. There's no sin in being excited about your current Porsche like a proud parent on the soccer field.
Say my buddy (who really has a 993) got 997S and I have my Turbo. Why would he get the 997S? Because he has kids' futures to think of, and his wife would kill him for being selfish with >$100K on a freeking car. It's just his situation, his choice.
Does he get a thrill driving my car: yes. Does he want a TT? Yes, who doesn't want more HP/Tq in a sports car? (oops!! some people on RList don't, I forgot!
) Does he go home depressed because he would have a 997S? (in reality a 993) NO EFFN WAY!Why? Because we're adults - not kids. He loves his current (and future) P-car. What makes him happy makes me happy and vice versa.
What I also noticed on my drive yesterday was my car gives a plentiful amount of never-boring fun with only the right foot! There is so much stuff to play with when large HP/Tq is in reserve.
I burned up some twisty (well-known-hazard-wise) roads I had absolutely no thought of "handling differences make this car disappointing." When hitting overboost all I could think of was a blubbering: I can't imagine how Porsche can build these cars! (any Porsche!). Eventually I see a 1980s SC come the other way! HUGE WAVE AND SMILE! Made my day.
Conclusion: don't give or take anything personally on these boards. When things get "lively" here it's only because misunderstandings are the result of the fact we're not talking face-to-face. We all love our cars. There's no sin in being excited about your current Porsche like a proud parent on the soccer field.
12-03-2010, 01:12 PM
#135
Rennlist Member
Did you actually ask your friend if he wanted a Turbo over an S? Or you are merely incorrectly assuming, like you have all thread, that everyone values the Turbo the same way you do? Some people will prefer the Turbo over other 911. Some will not. If you honestly think everyone, or even most people, would pick the Turbo if given a free 911 of their choice (i.e. money is not a factor) then you are just plain stupid. Any kind of sweeping generalization like that is pointless.