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Questions for those with Turbo and Carrera experience--

 
Old 12-01-2010, 10:20 PM
  #61  
ADias
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From reading post #60 it became crystal clear that his author is a fervent Turbo owner and in his mind the Turbo is the best thing since sliced bread. Those who prefer NA engines (I hope most people on this NA forum) are just poor souls who deprive themselves from the best.

A final thought: If Porsche feels they are not selling enough Turbos I suggest they hire Post # 60's author as a Turbo evangelist.
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Old 12-01-2010, 10:23 PM
  #62  
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So are you saying that you know, beyond the shadow of a doubt, that the original poster would prefer a Turbo to a C2S? You KNOW that the original poster would prefer a Turbo. That's what you're saying, right? There's absolutely no chance that he would prefer a C2S over a Turbo?

If you're not 100% certain of that then I don't see why you seem to want to squelch any discussion of the cars and their relative merits.

Aren't we allowed to answer the original poster's question? Can't you allow people to state their opinion without shouting them down that they are wrong wrong wrong?

Originally Posted by LlBr View Post
I absolutely let it go
World's best irony.

Let it go, man. Let it go.
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Old 12-01-2010, 10:24 PM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by ADias View Post
From reading post #60 it became crystal clear that his author is a fervent Turbo owner and in his mind the Turbo is the best thing since sliced bread.
Well I hope for LlBr's sake he never learns about the Turbo S or the GT2.
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Old 12-01-2010, 11:14 PM
  #64  
Mike in CA
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Originally Posted by LlBr View Post
I absolutely let it go.
A 561 word rebuttal with 3 pictures and highlighted references to respond to my post and try to prove once more that you're "right", and to you that is an indication that you've let it go?? Surely, you must see the irony in that.
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Old 12-01-2010, 11:23 PM
  #65  
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Originally Posted by Mike in CA View Post
A 561 word rebuttal with 3 pictures and highlighted references to respond to my post and try to prove once more that you're "right", and to you that is an indication that you've let it go?? Surely, you must see the irony in that.
WTF? There's a major disconnect here with you guys. My personal opinions are no longer being expressed = "I let it go."

There is no irony because ____I____ did not write these words about the Turbo, Porsche did:


Ultimate performance defined by a single word: Turbo.

Relentless Improvement

Most powerful Turbo ever.

Redefine[s] performance

Not just an icon but an iconoclast

[Turbo] has crushed old beliefs about the limits of sports car performance.

The ultimate sports car - and the next masterpiece of Porsche engineering.

It "shreds the envelope!" [paraphrased]
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Old 12-01-2010, 11:24 PM
  #66  
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Originally Posted by alexb76 View Post
As you can see there are very obvious opinions around this topic. LOL.

Basically, if you like Torque/Power, no matter what others say, you CANNOT replace Turbo. The power is enormous, the feel of torque coming on is exhilirating.

If however, you like nimbler lighters cars, and for instance like Lotus and more go cart feel, then Carrera is a better choice.

At the end of the day, ONLY YOU can decide, so please drive both to see which makes YOU happier!

PS. One note, as you got a 997.1 C4S, Turbo has a different AWD that is HEAVIER than yours and uses the front wheels much more frequently than your AWD. When I tested the 997.2 C4S, I was very surprised how much of 911 feel was absent due to new AWD, hence, I highly recommend to test a Turbo and not judge the AWD feel based on your current exerpeince. They're quite different!
I appreciate your comments, Alex. I am proud to admit I was looking at C4S models not for the AWD, but for the wide hips--they define Porsche to me, and that's what I wanted in my first Porsche. An '09 model or newer was out-of-the question, and I feel I lucked out with the CPOd one I got. Its spec is incredible and desirable, at least to me. The X51, the short shift, leather and other accessories make it my dream Porsche for now, combining what I feel is the Porsche driving experience with modern-day essentials I enjoy (nav, bluetooth, MFSW, etc.).

That being said, I didn't drive a C2S--why would I? Better driving experience or not, visually it isn't as enthralling or pulse-quickening to me. That may have been a mistake, because it's possible that driving a C2S would have been substantially more enjoyable to me, making me look beyond the wide 911 hips of the C4S. While I have yet to take my car to our local track, I have been able to have fun with some throttle induced oversteer, and though the front wheels bite, the back can still swing on this car--not like a C2S, but enough for my minimal skills anyway. Maybe the track and driving a RWD 911 will convince me that my next car will not be AWD, but I'm happy knowing what I have is special to me and I'm comfortable paying for it.

If I ever get another Porsche, I will drive several models to experience the difference. I didn't want to start a battle here, just get opinions on those who've had or driven both.

I've got no problem with LlBr's comments, or anyone's for that matter. Keep the posts rolling! Not many Turbo owners chimed in. I will post in the future when I get to drive the Turbo S. Happy Holidays!
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Old 12-01-2010, 11:35 PM
  #67  
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Originally Posted by Nugget View Post
So are you saying that you know, beyond the shadow of a doubt, that the original poster would prefer a Turbo to a C2S? You KNOW that the original poster would prefer a Turbo. That's what you're saying, right? There's absolutely no chance that he would prefer a C2S over a Turbo?

Again, this is what I'm saying, read it carefully: if the guy came to me and wanted to know why guys buy the Turbo I'd say because it's considered to be Porsche's best work in creating the ultimate sports car for the road; presumably the autobahn.

Got it? Good. What the OP does after that is his business.

Why would I say that? Because Porsche says the following about it (and the mags with all their reviews support it):

I'd like to make bigger lists of all the superlatives used to describe the Turbo in the professional automotive literature and compare them to all those used to describe the NA road cars (not race cars) but I don't have time and this is not a dissertation. My suspicion is the Turbo's list of superlatives would be weightier and more impressive.

That's all I have to say about it. Me getting lynched is not my idea of getting informed while entertained.



Ultimate performance defined by a single word: Turbo.

Relentless improvement

Most powerful Turbo ever.

Redefine[s] performance

Not just an icon but an iconoclast

[Turbo] has crushed old beliefs about the limits of sports car performance.

The ultimate sports car - and the next masterpiece of Porsche engineering.

It "shreds the envelope!" [paraphrased]

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Old 12-01-2010, 11:44 PM
  #68  
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Docfink, when u test drove the 997.2 C4S was it PDK equipped. If so did you drive it in manual sport mode with SPASM on. The difference in how light the car feels with the above settings vs normal settings is like night and day ie. Lotus vs Buick. There is so much one learns over a period of time with these 997.2 w/ PDK that it is so hard to get a good feel for it with one or two test drives IMO.
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Old 12-01-2010, 11:50 PM
  #69  
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Originally Posted by Nugget View Post

Aren't we allowed to answer the original poster's question? Can't you allow people to state their opinion without shouting them down that they are wrong wrong wrong?
.

HUH? If you don't mind: what did I say exactly which makes you think this?

Review my posts and show me my own words. I'll be glad to apologize if necessary.

Otherwise I'm thinking the voice you are reading or hearing is not mine.
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Old 12-02-2010, 12:01 AM
  #70  
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Does anyone read the brochure? I can't imagine reading the "rich content" would push me over to make a purchase of that level.
Hey, just decide which flavor candy you want...
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Old 12-02-2010, 12:03 AM
  #71  
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Originally Posted by docfink View Post
I appreciate your comments, Alex. I am proud to admit I was looking at C4S models not for the AWD, but for the wide hips--they define Porsche to me, and that's what I wanted in my first Porsche. An '09 model or newer was out-of-the question, and I feel I lucked out with the CPOd one I got. Its spec is incredible and desirable, at least to me. The X51, the short shift, leather and other accessories make it my dream Porsche for now, combining what I feel is the Porsche driving experience with modern-day essentials I enjoy (nav, bluetooth, MFSW, etc.).

That being said, I didn't drive a C2S--why would I? Better driving experience or not, visually it isn't as enthralling or pulse-quickening to me. That may have been a mistake, because it's possible that driving a C2S would have been substantially more enjoyable to me, making me look beyond the wide 911 hips of the C4S. While I have yet to take my car to our local track, I have been able to have fun with some throttle induced oversteer, and though the front wheels bite, the back can still swing on this car--not like a C2S, but enough for my minimal skills anyway. Maybe the track and driving a RWD 911 will convince me that my next car will not be AWD, but I'm happy knowing what I have is special to me and I'm comfortable paying for it.

If I ever get another Porsche, I will drive several models to experience the difference. I didn't want to start a battle here, just get opinions on those who've had or driven both.

I've got no problem with LlBr's comments, or anyone's for that matter. Keep the posts rolling! Not many Turbo owners chimed in. I will post in the future when I get to drive the Turbo S. Happy Holidays!
No Worries. You got the best C4S, I couldn't find one as greatly as speced as yours, and as I said the AWD on 997.1 doesn't interfere with any of 911 feel and enjoyment and the hips obviously help with the looks.

So, enjoy your car for now, it's a fantastic car and then when you're in the market for another, you know how to pick what works best for you!

Cheers!
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Old 12-02-2010, 12:13 AM
  #72  
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Review my posts and show me my own words. I'll be glad to apologize if necessary.
I'm ambivalent about continuing this thread, but since you asked I'll accept your invitation...

Originally Posted by LlBr View Post
Again, this is what I'm saying, read it carefully: if the guy came to me and wanted to know why guys buy the Turbo I'd say because it's considered to be Porsche's best work in creating the ultimate sports car for the road; presumably the autobahn.
I've got no objection to that. If your advice to the OP is that he should buy the car that the sales brochure tells him he should buy then I guess we can all take that advice for what it's worth.

But that isn't all you are saying. I think your comments which have attracted the responses are when you continue on to assert your opinions as if they were inarguable fact. Like when you said:

the only performance feature of any Porsche you can use on public highways to it's maximum is the acceleration.
That's certainly not a fact, and is quite incorrect for many people and many roads. In fact, as some posters have commented -- the power of the turbo can the one thing that's most difficult to make use of where they live. Yet any time someone posts a different opinion you seem drawn to respond and explain why they're wrong.

It's also fatal to the discussion when you state that the reason someone prefers a C2S is merely because they don't own a Turbo or that people are only suggesting the car that they own themselves.

I don't own either a C2S or a Turbo. So much for that theory. I own a GT3 which is undeniably the best road car for me, but I don't think it's a very good choice for most people. It's my "ultimate" but wouldn't be for most people (and yes, it's a road car, just like the C2S and the Turbo).

You deleted the post where you told me that my opinion wasn't valid because I don't actually own a Turbo, which also was quite a bold claim but since you deleted it perhaps you've already realized it was overboard.

BTW, The people accusing me of having my head up my a** can equally be accused of the same head/a** behavior considering the car they are personally loving. We all have our personal opinions we all love our cars.
I don't think this is accurate, either. I see a lot other people in this thread suggesting that the original poster drive the cars and evaluate which they prefer. I see you telling everyone that the Turbo is "universally" the best and that people who don't prefer the Turbo are doing so for bad reasons. I haven't seen anyone else in the thread assert that the C2S is undisputedly superior, yet that's what you've been doing.

Let's compare your position:
there IS a universal truth about the 997TT and we all know it.
To what the "the people accusing you" have said:

Originally Posted by Nugget View Post
It's certainly important for a shopper to drive both so that they can make an informed decision.
Originally Posted by texas911 View Post
Depends on what floats your boat...
Originally Posted by ADias View Post
Like transmissions, there are those who swear for 6-speed and those who swear for PDK.
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Old 12-02-2010, 12:40 AM
  #73  
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Originally Posted by LlBr View Post
Good grief, man. Why is it so hard for you to understand that not only can you not prove that your opinion is the same as the general populace (i.e. you have no consensus), you are not going to convince anyone here either.

If you could just respond with a simple "Ok." this thread would end.
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Old 12-02-2010, 12:49 AM
  #74  
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Originally Posted by w00tPORSCHE View Post
Docfink, when u test drove the 997.2 C4S was it PDK equipped. If so did you drive it in manual sport mode with SPASM on. The difference in how light the car feels with the above settings vs normal settings is like night and day ie. Lotus vs Buick. There is so much one learns over a period of time with these 997.2 w/ PDK that it is so hard to get a good feel for it with one or two test drives IMO.
I never drove a 997.2, although a new friend (through the Porsche world) has a 997.2 C4S with a stick that I'll drive in the future. I realize it's not going to perform like a PDK-equipped car, but it will be different from mine.

As I've stated before on other threads--and I don't want to cause a mutiny here--I'm not ready for a PDK car presently. I know its advantages, but having a DSG-equipped car right now makes me realize I'm still happy driving a manual tranny. Maybe all the PDK guys here rip up and down their paddles all day long, but I leave my DSG in "D" 99% of the time like my nearly 72yo mother in her Corolla. It's just not as involving to me. One day maybe, but not now.
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Old 12-02-2010, 01:10 AM
  #75  
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gravedgr, your "beating a dead horse" is a great emoticon.....
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