A concession to US emissions standards...
11-10-2010, 10:22 PM
#46
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
What would be interesting would be to take advantage of mass saving technologies to the max, not just use that to mitigate the addition of extra stuff with no place in a sports car. It is the average sports car buyer, who buys a sports car for its image only, who demands that nonsense and forces it on the rest of us.
11-10-2010, 10:41 PM
#47
Rennlist Member
You only have to look at the Boxster Spyder and Cayman R, which use the same platform as the 997; the Spyder at 2,9XXlbs, and the Cayman R probably right at 3,000 (unless they have some tricks up their sleeve) with basic creature comforts (AC, stereo, power windows/locks). Even being substantially larger, with 50% more power and chassis to easily handle it, and a full complement of modern safety equipment, you have to go back to the 1980s to find a 911 that is lighter.
11-10-2010, 11:51 PM
#48
Additionally, if you don't need electric windows, then why not drive a manual 6 speed in lieu of a computer controlled gearbox?
Help me understand your passion for reducing complexity in a sports car.
11-10-2010, 11:57 PM
#49
Race Car
I would love to hear, from a Porsche engineer, how much weight is added to a 911 solely because of safety and emissions gear. And also, how much extra size is required to accommodate said gear.
We are to a point where the biggest gains -- in both performance AND economy -- will come from advances in materials. Several companies seem to be on the verge of price breakthroughs on carbon-fiber or composite materials, and when that happens things will get interesting. Lambo is on the cutting edge of this, as they have a joint research project at the University of Washington that incorporates Boeing's expertise. Their new show car, the Sesto Elemento, is a great example of this, as it's not a Lotus-sized car -- yet it weights 2,200 pounds. A little more than a ton and it has 570 HP!
Now imagine a real-world implementation of this technology in a Porsche. Say we keep the 400 HP output of a GTS, but drop the weight to 2,800 pounds. Sounds like fun, doesn't it?
It's easy to be upset about the issues that seem to be strangling our cars, but we may also be on the verge of new technologies that make Porsches more fun than ever. Case in point: towards the end of the 19th century New Yorkers held a series of meetings to deal with an impending environmental crisis that threatened to shut the city down. The issue? Commerce depended on transportation by horse, and the sidewalks were stacked with horse manure. By the end of the 1890's most people forecast doomsday scenarios that involved shutting the city down. However, none of this came to pass; a technology no one anticipated -- the automobile -- changed the course of history and saved New York City from ecological disaster.
Ironic, ain't it?
We are to a point where the biggest gains -- in both performance AND economy -- will come from advances in materials. Several companies seem to be on the verge of price breakthroughs on carbon-fiber or composite materials, and when that happens things will get interesting. Lambo is on the cutting edge of this, as they have a joint research project at the University of Washington that incorporates Boeing's expertise. Their new show car, the Sesto Elemento, is a great example of this, as it's not a Lotus-sized car -- yet it weights 2,200 pounds. A little more than a ton and it has 570 HP!
Now imagine a real-world implementation of this technology in a Porsche. Say we keep the 400 HP output of a GTS, but drop the weight to 2,800 pounds. Sounds like fun, doesn't it?
It's easy to be upset about the issues that seem to be strangling our cars, but we may also be on the verge of new technologies that make Porsches more fun than ever. Case in point: towards the end of the 19th century New Yorkers held a series of meetings to deal with an impending environmental crisis that threatened to shut the city down. The issue? Commerce depended on transportation by horse, and the sidewalks were stacked with horse manure. By the end of the 1890's most people forecast doomsday scenarios that involved shutting the city down. However, none of this came to pass; a technology no one anticipated -- the automobile -- changed the course of history and saved New York City from ecological disaster.
Ironic, ain't it?
11-10-2010, 11:58 PM
#50
Race Car
I'm confused here, don't you have a PDK transmission in your car? The PDK certainly adds complexity and much to your point does that really make sense in a sports car?
Additionally, if you don't need electric windows, then why not drive a manual 6 speed in lieu of a computer controlled gearbox?
Help me understand your passion for reducing complexity in a sports car.
Additionally, if you don't need electric windows, then why not drive a manual 6 speed in lieu of a computer controlled gearbox?
Help me understand your passion for reducing complexity in a sports car.
11-11-2010, 12:41 AM
#51
Several companies seem to be on the verge of price breakthroughs on carbon-fiber or composite materials, and when that happens things will get interesting.
11-11-2010, 12:43 AM
#52
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
I'm confused here, don't you have a PDK transmission in your car? The PDK certainly adds complexity and much to your point does that really make sense in a sports car?
Additionally, if you don't need electric windows, then why not drive a manual 6 speed in lieu of a computer controlled gearbox?
Help me understand your passion for reducing complexity in a sports car.
Additionally, if you don't need electric windows, then why not drive a manual 6 speed in lieu of a computer controlled gearbox?
Help me understand your passion for reducing complexity in a sports car.
11-11-2010, 12:52 AM
#53
No inconsistency at all. A dual clutch tranny is just an extension of a manual tranny adding performance with a small weight penalty. An electrical stop-start is added complexity that penalizes performance. A compromise for commuter use of a sports car in an urban environment - a compromise in itself.
11-11-2010, 01:10 AM
#54
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
I'll give you that, as it turns out today's electrical windows may not be much heavier than a crank mechanism, but please do not add more useless crap, mostly dictated by the government elites of the day.
11-11-2010, 05:35 AM
#55
Rennlist Member
While not exactly that extreme, my company is moving to a health benefit program that is based on health measurements. Everyone does blood tests once a year and based on results, your premium varies...
So, if you are willing to pay, go ahead and eat and smoke all you want. Maybe it should be the same with cars. Put a polution tax on it, let us pay for it, and get it over with...
-T
So, if you are willing to pay, go ahead and eat and smoke all you want. Maybe it should be the same with cars. Put a polution tax on it, let us pay for it, and get it over with...
-T
11-11-2010, 12:05 PM
#56
Race Car
Yea those evil government elites! Without them, we'd have no ABS, airbags, crumple zones, clean air to breath, seat belts, back up lights, laminated windshields! We don't need any of that crap.
11-11-2010, 01:08 PM
#57
Nordschleife Master
Just read a recent article saying that Porsche’s goal is that the new model should not be heavier then the outgoing model. So they need to be 10% lighter due to the standards that they have to comply to.
11-11-2010, 01:40 PM
#59
Race Director
