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A concession to US emissions standards...

 
Old 11-10-2010, 10:22 PM
  #46  
ADias
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What would be interesting would be to take advantage of mass saving technologies to the max, not just use that to mitigate the addition of extra stuff with no place in a sports car. It is the average sports car buyer, who buys a sports car for its image only, who demands that nonsense and forces it on the rest of us.
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Old 11-10-2010, 10:41 PM
  #47  
Alan Smithee
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You only have to look at the Boxster Spyder and Cayman R, which use the same platform as the 997; the Spyder at 2,9XXlbs, and the Cayman R probably right at 3,000 (unless they have some tricks up their sleeve) with basic creature comforts (AC, stereo, power windows/locks). Even being substantially larger, with 50% more power and chassis to easily handle it, and a full complement of modern safety equipment, you have to go back to the 1980s to find a 911 that is lighter.
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Old 11-10-2010, 11:51 PM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by ADias View Post
But look at the added complexity... does that make sense in a sports car? Heck, I don't even need electric windows. Soon (if Eric Schmidt has his will) cars will drive us...
I'm confused here, don't you have a PDK transmission in your car? The PDK certainly adds complexity and much to your point does that really make sense in a sports car?

Additionally, if you don't need electric windows, then why not drive a manual 6 speed in lieu of a computer controlled gearbox?

Help me understand your passion for reducing complexity in a sports car.
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Old 11-10-2010, 11:57 PM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by brt3 View Post
I would love to hear, from a Porsche engineer, how much weight is added to a 911 solely because of safety and emissions gear. And also, how much extra size is required to accommodate said gear.

We are to a point where the biggest gains -- in both performance AND economy -- will come from advances in materials. Several companies seem to be on the verge of price breakthroughs on carbon-fiber or composite materials, and when that happens things will get interesting. Lambo is on the cutting edge of this, as they have a joint research project at the University of Washington that incorporates Boeing's expertise. Their new show car, the Sesto Elemento, is a great example of this, as it's not a Lotus-sized car -- yet it weights 2,200 pounds. A little more than a ton and it has 570 HP!

Now imagine a real-world implementation of this technology in a Porsche. Say we keep the 400 HP output of a GTS, but drop the weight to 2,800 pounds. Sounds like fun, doesn't it?

It's easy to be upset about the issues that seem to be strangling our cars, but we may also be on the verge of new technologies that make Porsches more fun than ever. Case in point: towards the end of the 19th century New Yorkers held a series of meetings to deal with an impending environmental crisis that threatened to shut the city down. The issue? Commerce depended on transportation by horse, and the sidewalks were stacked with horse manure. By the end of the 1890's most people forecast doomsday scenarios that involved shutting the city down. However, none of this came to pass; a technology no one anticipated -- the automobile -- changed the course of history and saved New York City from ecological disaster.

Ironic, ain't it?
Sure we Porsche can use super exotic materials, just like Lambo and Ferrari. But look how much more they cost too. Remember the days when Porsche was the everyday sports car? I think Porsche still wants to keep it that way.
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Old 11-10-2010, 11:58 PM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by Clifton View Post
I'm confused here, don't you have a PDK transmission in your car? The PDK certainly adds complexity and much to your point does that really make sense in a sports car?

Additionally, if you don't need electric windows, then why not drive a manual 6 speed in lieu of a computer controlled gearbox?

Help me understand your passion for reducing complexity in a sports car.
PWND
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Old 11-11-2010, 12:41 AM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by texas911 View Post
Sure we Porsche can use super exotic materials, just like Lambo and Ferrari. But look how much more they cost too. Remember the days when Porsche was the everyday sports car? I think Porsche still wants to keep it that way.
That's why I said this in my original post:

Several companies seem to be on the verge of price breakthroughs on carbon-fiber or composite materials, and when that happens things will get interesting.
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Old 11-11-2010, 12:43 AM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by Clifton View Post
I'm confused here, don't you have a PDK transmission in your car? The PDK certainly adds complexity and much to your point does that really make sense in a sports car?

Additionally, if you don't need electric windows, then why not drive a manual 6 speed in lieu of a computer controlled gearbox?

Help me understand your passion for reducing complexity in a sports car.
No inconsistency at all. A dual clutch tranny is just an extension of a manual tranny adding performance with a small weight penalty. An electrical stop-start is added complexity that penalizes performance. A compromise for commuter use of a sports car in an urban environment - a compromise in itself.
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Old 11-11-2010, 12:52 AM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by ADias View Post
No inconsistency at all. A dual clutch tranny is just an extension of a manual tranny adding performance with a small weight penalty. An electrical stop-start is added complexity that penalizes performance. A compromise for commuter use of a sports car in an urban environment - a compromise in itself.
By your logic then wouldn't an electric window just be an extension of an manual crank window adding performance with a small weight penalty as well?
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Old 11-11-2010, 01:10 AM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by Clifton View Post
By your logic then wouldn't an electric window just be an extension of an manual crank window adding performance with a small weight penalty as well?
I'll give you that, as it turns out today's electrical windows may not be much heavier than a crank mechanism, but please do not add more useless crap, mostly dictated by the government elites of the day.
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Old 11-11-2010, 05:35 AM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by tpenta View Post
While not exactly that extreme, my company is moving to a health benefit program that is based on health measurements. Everyone does blood tests once a year and based on results, your premium varies...

So, if you are willing to pay, go ahead and eat and smoke all you want. Maybe it should be the same with cars. Put a polution tax on it, let us pay for it, and get it over with...

-T
First off, I was being sarcastic, but your missing the point. I actually agree with incentives on healthy living and live quite well myself, my point was, the largest CO2 producer by far is kattle. So, if government or green groups are truly serious about CO2 and treat they should go after meat industry as well, and treat them like car industry. Set limits to production, and hence your meat consumption!
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Old 11-11-2010, 12:05 PM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by ADias View Post
I'll give you that, as it turns out today's electrical windows may not be much heavier than a crank mechanism, but please do not add more useless crap, mostly dictated by the government elites of the day.
Yea those evil government elites! Without them, we'd have no ABS, airbags, crumple zones, clean air to breath, seat belts, back up lights, laminated windshields! We don't need any of that crap.
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Old 11-11-2010, 01:08 PM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by brt3 View Post
I would love to hear, from a Porsche engineer, how much weight is added to a 911 solely because of safety and emissions gear. And also, how much extra size is required to accommodate said gear.
Just read a recent article saying that Porscheĺs goal is that the new model should not be heavier then the outgoing model. So they need to be 10% lighter due to the standards that they have to comply to.
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Old 11-11-2010, 01:25 PM
  #58  
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have you driven an Audi A3 tdi - that thing is a hoot to drive...
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Old 11-11-2010, 01:40 PM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by lhd7 View Post
have you driven an Audi A3 tdi - that thing is a hoot to drive...
I have, and you're right, it is a hoot. I'm trying to convince my wife that's what she needs for around town instead of a new Prius.
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Old 11-11-2010, 02:32 PM
  #60  
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More 991 spy shots.

Note the flap jus above the windshield. There's another in the rear.





This car is less-and-less 911, with its (Beetle-like) bulging front bonnet and its Jag-XK stretched silhouette.
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