Autoblog road trip in Germany with 10 C2S
11-08-2010, 03:38 PM
#16
Instructor
I could have picked up the phone and called any automaker for any car... but I chose to call Porsche, and specifically asked for a 997. They kept suggesting a Panamera (for its room and comfort), but I really wanted a 911 Coupe. You should have seen the grin on my face when I realized (on the curb at the airport) it had the sport exhaust, PCCB, PASM, sport seats, etc...
One more thing, my close-up wheel pics were taken the last day. Another benefit of PCCB, is a near lack of brake dust.
- Mike
11-08-2010, 03:41 PM
#17
Rennlist Member
Yes, it is very common for Germany-based Porsches to suffer from warped rotors--I have seen it before several times on Porsches that spent most of their life on the autobahns. It is very common there to be up to 150 or so and then be forced to brake down to 75 or so and then back on the hammer again and again
Maybe the brakes on older Porsches were just a lot worse than the modern cars, I don't know.
11-08-2010, 04:00 PM
#19
Good article. Nice to see a reviewer who can work the Sport and PASM buttons correctly!
I've seen too many reviews that claim PDK is sluggish because they didn't push the Sport button.
I've seen too many reviews that claim PDK is sluggish because they didn't push the Sport button.
11-08-2010, 04:03 PM
#20
Poseur
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
To change the language you go into MAIN and then SETUP and simply change the working language from German to English (GB if you want an english accent). It will affect everything throughout the PCM system. Also, with the integrated nav system in central europe you will enjoy real-time traffic advisories that have been around for decades over there. The "Stau" warnings will route you off the autobahn, for example, and around the Stau and then put you back on somewhere else down stream so that you are not stuck in traffic. I'm sure the Garmans do that as well today but may require the right subscription in the USA--but perhaps that information passed through in Europe. It's a lot handier having the information fully integrated.
I have been reading Road and Track and Automobile and Car and Driver for decades. I think we'd all like a job where we simply get in someone else's car in Germany and drive it around for a week! My nav-equiped 997S worked very well for me when I picked it up over there and put about 3200 miles on in in 4 weeks.
When I speak about iron brakes I am talking about my experience with seeing many Porsches that were owned by Germans in Germany who have literally warped their rotors from the constant high speed to braking scenario that is routine in their heavy traffic areas. I used to live in Germany in the 60s and 70s as well as many many trips there in the 80s and 90s and again this century. Spend a little time around large Porsche repair shops in Germany, e.g., Karlsruhe, Stuttgart, Wiesbaden, Frankfurt, and others, and you will get this other story about brakes over there. Another significant factor that puts the PCCBs in the plus column for Germans is the issue of winter time corrosion. With their heavy dependence upon chemicals to keep the roads clear and dry in the winter, the non-protected parts of the cars take a serious hit. Iron rotors are about as unprotected as you can get.
I hope that as an automotive writer as a full time profession, that you recognize that a week with a car is not truly sufficient time to draw meaningful conclusions. For example, if you get on a stretch of autobahn that has concrete joints every 5 meters you may believe that the wheel-base of that car is problematic. When you report things, people READ it and react to it. I can only caution you to be careful about when you write as well in that you may have a large audience who can react negatively by changing their minds about a particular car, or a particular option or set of options on the car. For example, the majority of those who have had PCCBs will want that in all of their future cars. The majority of USA buyers of the 911 only hold onto the cars for 2-4 years so ceramics make little economic sense to them as they are unable to amortize the price across such a short period. Germans have a tendency to keep their cars longer.
I have been reading Road and Track and Automobile and Car and Driver for decades. I think we'd all like a job where we simply get in someone else's car in Germany and drive it around for a week! My nav-equiped 997S worked very well for me when I picked it up over there and put about 3200 miles on in in 4 weeks.
When I speak about iron brakes I am talking about my experience with seeing many Porsches that were owned by Germans in Germany who have literally warped their rotors from the constant high speed to braking scenario that is routine in their heavy traffic areas. I used to live in Germany in the 60s and 70s as well as many many trips there in the 80s and 90s and again this century. Spend a little time around large Porsche repair shops in Germany, e.g., Karlsruhe, Stuttgart, Wiesbaden, Frankfurt, and others, and you will get this other story about brakes over there. Another significant factor that puts the PCCBs in the plus column for Germans is the issue of winter time corrosion. With their heavy dependence upon chemicals to keep the roads clear and dry in the winter, the non-protected parts of the cars take a serious hit. Iron rotors are about as unprotected as you can get.
I hope that as an automotive writer as a full time profession, that you recognize that a week with a car is not truly sufficient time to draw meaningful conclusions. For example, if you get on a stretch of autobahn that has concrete joints every 5 meters you may believe that the wheel-base of that car is problematic. When you report things, people READ it and react to it. I can only caution you to be careful about when you write as well in that you may have a large audience who can react negatively by changing their minds about a particular car, or a particular option or set of options on the car. For example, the majority of those who have had PCCBs will want that in all of their future cars. The majority of USA buyers of the 911 only hold onto the cars for 2-4 years so ceramics make little economic sense to them as they are unable to amortize the price across such a short period. Germans have a tendency to keep their cars longer.
11-08-2010, 04:19 PM
#21
Instructor
To change the language you go into MAIN and then SETUP and simply change the working language from German to English (GB if you want an english accent). It will affect everything throughout the PCM system. Also, with the integrated nav system in central europe you will enjoy real-time traffic advisories that have been around for decades over there. The "Stau" warnings will route you off the autobahn, for example, and around the Stau and then put you back on somewhere else down stream so that you are not stuck in traffic. I'm sure the Garmans do that as well today but may require the right subscription in the USA--but perhaps that information passed through in Europe. It's a lot handier having the information fully integrated.
I have been reading Road and Track and Automobile and Car and Driver for decades. I think we'd all like a job where we simply get in someone else's car in Germany and drive it around for a week! My nav-equiped 997S worked very well for me when I picked it up over there and put about 3200 miles on in in 4 weeks.
When I speak about iron brakes I am talking about my experience with seeing many Porsches that were owned by Germans in Germany who have literally warped their rotors from the constant high speed to braking scenario that is routine in their heavy traffic areas. I used to live in Germany in the 60s and 70s as well as many many trips there in the 80s and 90s and again this century. Spend a little time around large Porsche repair shops in Germany, e.g., Karlsruhe, Stuttgart, Wiesbaden, Frankfurt, and others, and you will get this other story about brakes over there. Another significant factor that puts the PCCBs in the plus column for Germans is the issue of winter time corrosion. With their heavy dependence upon chemicals to keep the roads clear and dry in the winter, the non-protected parts of the cars take a serious hit. Iron rotors are about as unprotected as you can get.
I hope that as an automotive writer as a full time profession, that you recognize that a week with a car is not truly sufficient time to draw meaningful conclusions. For example, if you get on a stretch of autobahn that has concrete joints every 5 meters you may believe that the wheel-base of that car is problematic. When you report things, people READ it and react to it. I can only caution you to be careful about when you write as well in that you may have a large audience who can react negatively by changing their minds about a particular car, or a particular option or set of options on the car. For example, the majority of those who have had PCCBs will want that in all of their future cars. The majority of USA buyers of the 911 only hold onto the cars for 2-4 years so ceramics make little economic sense to them as they are unable to amortize the price across such a short period. Germans have a tendency to keep their cars longer.
I have been reading Road and Track and Automobile and Car and Driver for decades. I think we'd all like a job where we simply get in someone else's car in Germany and drive it around for a week! My nav-equiped 997S worked very well for me when I picked it up over there and put about 3200 miles on in in 4 weeks.
When I speak about iron brakes I am talking about my experience with seeing many Porsches that were owned by Germans in Germany who have literally warped their rotors from the constant high speed to braking scenario that is routine in their heavy traffic areas. I used to live in Germany in the 60s and 70s as well as many many trips there in the 80s and 90s and again this century. Spend a little time around large Porsche repair shops in Germany, e.g., Karlsruhe, Stuttgart, Wiesbaden, Frankfurt, and others, and you will get this other story about brakes over there. Another significant factor that puts the PCCBs in the plus column for Germans is the issue of winter time corrosion. With their heavy dependence upon chemicals to keep the roads clear and dry in the winter, the non-protected parts of the cars take a serious hit. Iron rotors are about as unprotected as you can get.
I hope that as an automotive writer as a full time profession, that you recognize that a week with a car is not truly sufficient time to draw meaningful conclusions. For example, if you get on a stretch of autobahn that has concrete joints every 5 meters you may believe that the wheel-base of that car is problematic. When you report things, people READ it and react to it. I can only caution you to be careful about when you write as well in that you may have a large audience who can react negatively by changing their minds about a particular car, or a particular option or set of options on the car. For example, the majority of those who have had PCCBs will want that in all of their future cars. The majority of USA buyers of the 911 only hold onto the cars for 2-4 years so ceramics make little economic sense to them as they are unable to amortize the price across such a short period. Germans have a tendency to keep their cars longer.
While this was just a week with this particular 997, I've thankfully spent several weeks with a 997 GT3, 997 C4S, and had generous seat time with the 997 Sport Classic (my favorite), 997 Turbo, 997S Cabriolet and 997 Turbo Cabriolet.
As a journalist, most of the time I just get 8 hours behind the wheel (like last week in upstate New York with the CL63 AMG). However, I drive so many cars that it doesn't take long to form an opinion (on ergonomics, steering feel, suspension, seat comfort, climate control, etc...). That's my job.
Autoblog's audience tends to "get" Porsches, and that is good. Most have not driven a 911, but they realize the rear-engine advantages in braking and accelerating (I don't need to tell them). However, I am careful about my wording as many uninformed readers will pick each sentence apart. I can't tell you how many times I rephrase things for the layman. I sometimes get far too technical (in fact, I yanked a bunch of stuff about PCCB construction out of this story to keep readers from getting dizzy... "specially treated carbon-fiber compound that is silicated in a high-vacuum process at approximately 1,700 C").
When I did my story in Excellence over the summer, it was easy to write for Porschephiles!
- Mike
11-08-2010, 04:52 PM
#22
Nordschleife Master
Yes, it has PASM.
I mentioned, "minor criticism on the open autobahn due to body oscillations (setting the suspension in "Standard" mode helps a bit)." Most of the time I hit "Sport" and then turned the shock settings back to normal. I like the "Sport" setting for the PDK, but the suspension was too harsh unless I was having fun on the side roads.
- Mike
I mentioned, "minor criticism on the open autobahn due to body oscillations (setting the suspension in "Standard" mode helps a bit)." Most of the time I hit "Sport" and then turned the shock settings back to normal. I like the "Sport" setting for the PDK, but the suspension was too harsh unless I was having fun on the side roads.
- Mike
11-08-2010, 05:01 PM
#23
AMEN, brother! I do a great deal of computer and web design work. I also am very interested in high-end home audio and theater. Just because I can make almost anything work does not mean I should have to; I get so frustrated by engineers who don't understand what this is like for the majority of their user base...
11-08-2010, 05:02 PM
#24
Instructor
11-08-2010, 05:08 PM
#25
Nordschleife Master
Nothing visible, other than a slight lower stance and a stiffer ride. SPASM also comes with LSD, even though LSD can also be ordered with regular PASM.
Re PCM settings, go to Renntech.org and download the PCM PDF manuals before your next trip... or take me as co-pilot.
Re PCM settings, go to Renntech.org and download the PCM PDF manuals before your next trip... or take me as co-pilot.
11-08-2010, 05:09 PM
#26
Thanks, Mike, for the write-up and for bringing back good memories...
Biggest problem with driving on the Autobahn? Having to come back to the States. I spent a month, many years ago, driving a BMW around Germany. We almost never dropped below 90 and spent a long time cruising in the 120-140 mph range. When I returned home it felt so bizarre; I had to be extremely careful, the first week, to watch my speed -- it felt as though I was crawling at 70 mph...
Biggest problem with driving on the Autobahn? Having to come back to the States. I spent a month, many years ago, driving a BMW around Germany. We almost never dropped below 90 and spent a long time cruising in the 120-140 mph range. When I returned home it felt so bizarre; I had to be extremely careful, the first week, to watch my speed -- it felt as though I was crawling at 70 mph...
11-08-2010, 05:39 PM
#28
Rennlist Member
Stupidity? Typical for most auto magazine writers?
Do me a favor, and hold off on making general assumptions about people until you have met them (or at least done some research about their qualifications). Do you want me to make a generalization about guys who drive Cabriolets with the PCCB option?
I've learned not to do that crap, as there are a handful of guys who drive Cabs with ceramics who are true enthusiasts...
BTW, I've driven nearly every model Porsche has in their lineup in Europe (throughout France, Germany, Italy, Austria and Portugal). All were equipped with NAV, yet nobody has ever been able to show me how to flip it from GERMAN -> ENGLISH. Send me instructions, and you'll make my job easier. That aside, my personal Garmin had about two dozen waypoints programmed (back in the States) making it one hellava lot easier for the journey.
I just noticed you live in SB. I used to be very active with the SB PCA (Editor of its newsletter) and I race with the POC. We've probably met.
- Mike
Do me a favor, and hold off on making general assumptions about people until you have met them (or at least done some research about their qualifications). Do you want me to make a generalization about guys who drive Cabriolets with the PCCB option?
I've learned not to do that crap, as there are a handful of guys who drive Cabs with ceramics who are true enthusiasts...BTW, I've driven nearly every model Porsche has in their lineup in Europe (throughout France, Germany, Italy, Austria and Portugal). All were equipped with NAV, yet nobody has ever been able to show me how to flip it from GERMAN -> ENGLISH. Send me instructions, and you'll make my job easier. That aside, my personal Garmin had about two dozen waypoints programmed (back in the States) making it one hellava lot easier for the journey.
I just noticed you live in SB. I used to be very active with the SB PCA (Editor of its newsletter) and I race with the POC. We've probably met.
- Mike
11-08-2010, 05:48 PM
#29
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The reporter's comments about not understanding German (on the navigational system) reflects his lack of familiarity with the Porsche. You simply go in and change the LANGUAGE on the PCM. Silly. To use a Garmin while he has an integrated nav, reflects stupidity--typical for most auto magazine writers.
I liked the write-up. I'm surprised Porsche didnt give you the option list. PASM vs. SPASM (no real way to know). That could have made a difference in the ride and the compliance of the car. Useful to know when deciding whether to pick it as an option or not.
11-08-2010, 05:52 PM
#30
Poseur
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
At least they should handle you a manual in English if you're an English-speaking writer! May you have many more opportunities to check out more Porsches!