964C4

Respectable used car sellers do not sell, at least judging from their websites: RPM, Willhoit...

I have also seen some very good deals on this site, but cars sit for a long time before they sell or they just don't sell

The market is also very quiet for tuners, almost no threads about this subject or only basic changes are done to the cars

Only new car sales seem to be Ok !

So different compared to 2007,2008...

Chris from Cali

A lot of those guys are WAAAAY overpriced. Granted the cars are immaculate and with low miles, but the prices are seriously high.

yemenmocha

Think there's already been a lot of re-positioning with people & their cars with the swings in the economy, and the deals that were made on the oversupply of new cars in what was it 2007 or 2008.

I'm noticing the same with houses. Most people are either stuck, or have made their move to where they want to be post-crash, or they're currently where they want to be. Not a lot of people in "maybe" territory. Low prices, low interest rates, tax incentives... people have made their moves, or can't move.

mdrobc1213

+1
Uncertainty of the economy and the fact that only for some the recession is over (i.e. not for most of middle class/working Americans) added to the boom of economies overseas has meant that Porsche has shifted allocation of production overseas to markets like China, Russia, Middle East where sales are still strong than here in the US where most folks are reluctant to spend on big ticket items such as a Porsche either to keep $$ liquid or available or to maybe be more conservative appearing where neighbors or even close friends have suffered losses in housing, bizness, etc IMHO. Just my 2 cents.

rijowysock

it's a very weird market if you ask me.. i post up some watches for sale at 35k and 42k and they sell within hours (prices are right in line with market value, not giving anything away) but i post my PDK Carrera up like 8k below ANY other PDK coupe in the country and i only get A: lowballs or B: people who cant get financing together.

I'm very confused because last year when I sold my 05 Carrera Cab yeah there was some tango'ing but in the end the deal just worked out.. this year I'm slashing prices like its Black Friday.

As far as dealers, they are just getting very greedy lately too, which doesnt really work with this market (buyers aren't willing to pay, and dealers arent willing to deal.

i think that maybe people overspent and are waiting for funds to come in? not sure.

i do find the forums very slow lately too.

Marine Blue

I think the biggest issue with older cars is cash. Buyers which had extra cash or could use home equity to buy a car were buying up their dream cars of yesteryear at a rapid pace. With housing prices down and many people out of jobs a big portion of the market has dropped off. Add economic uncertainty into the mix and you get a combination of people who aren't willing to spend a portion of their reserves or buyers who expect a lowball offer on a great car to be accepted by the seller.

With newer cars the sellers are up against new car dealers which offer competitive rates and warranty. The payments often don't differ that much to buy brand new vs a 2 year old car.

Fahrer

1. I think these cars are normally purchased with cash. These days either folks do not have the extra cash or are holding onto their cash to see what happens in economy or with the market for these cars.

2. I was originaly looking for a 993 ( I had been looking at cars from Holt, Willhoit, Sloan, Weissach Autohaus) but eventually my focus was moving from the good $35K cars with 45-60K miles to the great cars at about $50K with 25-35K miles. I eventually went with a leftover lightly optioned 2008S last year as the 2010s were coming out. It was at a dealer with 60 miles for just over $70K ( list $94K). I got a higher performace car with a warranty and much trouble free life to go with it. To top it off I was able to deduct the sales tax that year and got a nice tax credit for buying the car. Not the classic but I intend to keep the car and am not worried about re-sale value. My point here is that some of the great 993s out there are simply over priced and not far from a new car.

tincanman99

They are way, way over priced relative to the economy. Unemployment is still at 10% and there is little to no job creation happening. Its a lot of coin to drop on a car that is not your primary car many times.

The guys you mentioned are all selling 993 and older generations with the occasional 996/997. That being said lets look at it differently:

993 with low mileage: 50-60K
997 with low mileage: 50-60K.

At the minimum the 993 at this point is a 12 year old car. As a 12 year old car as nice it may have been and still is, its still a 12 year old car. Cars have advanced in 12 years and that includes Porsches.

At one point I was considering a 993 but Dan kind of slapped me on the head and said the exact same thing to me. This is a 12 year old car.

You really need to stay on top of them to keep them in tip top shape. Also there is the depreciation issue - ok you bought a low mileage one but the only way it will continue to be what it is, is if you dont drive it. Whats the point of buying this and never driving it.

After all Porsches are all about the driving.

JMaples

tincanman99, I assume by 12 years old you mean the design. If so, I completely agree.

rijowysock, here's my theory on why your watches sold. The guy that can afford a watch of that caliber has not really been hurt by this economy and probably never will be (i.e., he is not stretching to afford it). On the other hand, a lot of folks buying Porsches are "reaching" up to that next level (i.e., they are stretching to afford it).

sullivas

I was surprised to find that my '05 997 has depreciated ~8k since I bought it in December. I hope it levels out some. Maybe now's the time to trade up to a newer MY. Any suggestions?

mickfluff

"The market is also very quiet for tuners, almost no threads about this subject or only basic changes are done to the cars"

This is a topic you will find on other forums but less and less here...(a few survive!) Seems like some of the members here at Rennlist have done a fantastic job to steer the ship/forum into a much different direction with their views and response to topics that are modded, tuned and not stock....(or near stock) I think some fear posting about this topic (what they have done to their car or what they want to do?) based on the reaction we see time and time again by some... it is a bit of a downer as the market contracts we see less people buying new cars, although many are choosing to add to their current... be it performance (power, aero, handling, sound, other...) or other mods/tunes... Some boards are more open to that topic then others...

I am thinking of a serious power gain for my base 997 this winter as well as some other mods...... if I go that direction I would be weary to document the build here on rennlist over lets say some other boards out there....


(a lot of good here as well, no doubt, just replying to your note about tuners)

Keadog

I passed on a two owner, documented 993TT with 23K miles (polar silver/blue, PO Rennlister, it turns out) at Fred Baker's Christmas week at $63K. Ended up buying a '97 993 NB with 57K miles for $30 and put about $10 +/- in it, counting transport, taxes, all new rotors, brakes, tires, Alpine, Bird console, new windshield, etc (a total Steinel's go over and fix while it's there). I regret (somewhat) not getting the TT, but I'm certainly not paying $78K for a car with 28K miles in Texas (RPM's car). Or Wilhoit, ,Or Sloan's, etc.
As much as I love the 993 series, I'm beyond paying 80% of sticker for a 15 year old car, but that's just me. My plan is to keep my $42K NB, slowly making it Concours (but driving it, as I never plan to win) and then order a new TT in a year or so, depending on timing of the newest series release and how they look.

Nugget

I don't know how much your '05 will depreciate over the next year, but I do know that an '11 will depreciate a lot more.

At Law

You don't know how much your car has depreciated until you sell it.
I find it hard to believe your car has depreciated $8k since December,
unless you paid way too much for it.

I haven't had a pre-owned car depreciate $8k in 10 months, ever.

Graygoose997

Unless your mod involves Blue paint, you have made the wise decision.
Blue will add HP, torque , sound better and will cause your car to increase in value every day.
Anything else.....a fool's errand.