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EPA intent in killing Porsche

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Old 09-07-2010, 02:17 PM
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LlBr
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Originally Posted by alexb76
Not sure how they got that MPG. Just remember we got Cayenne gas guzzlers that compromise the most of Porsche sales. I think if they only counted MPG for Carrera/Cayman/Boxster it would have been much better.

Regardless, I think the whole thing is ludicrous.
Yeah. Totally ludicrous.

They should count how many Porsche-miles are driven per year and then compare emissions to the major car mfgrs.

Would be an interestingly miniscule number. Probably gobbled up by less than one day of coal burning in China.
Old 09-07-2010, 02:18 PM
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chopperzz
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as much as the purists complain about the introduction of the panamera, cayenne and VW merger it could prove that they will use all of these opportunities to shift their EPA requirements to the peripheral brands. The China market will far exceed North American sales, so hopefully they can use that overall growth as a way to offset the epa requirements here.....
Old 09-07-2010, 04:01 PM
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Edgy01
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I'm glad I got in before the REAL focus of their engineering was merely to satisfy MPG requirements imposed by the Fed.
Old 09-07-2010, 04:06 PM
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utkinpol
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Originally Posted by ADias
Of course things may change (or not), but the point is that governments are taking over industrial policy and screwing the people.
totally true, but what one could do about it? it is just a general trend and EPA is not even most offensive branch of this takeover.
Old 09-07-2010, 04:27 PM
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Sean in Texas
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Originally Posted by yemenmocha
They need to make trucks & SUV's subject to the same laws as cars. It was absurd that they were ever treated differently at all.
It certainly wasn't absurd when the majority of folks who drove trucks and SUV's actually needed to drive trucks and SUV's.
Old 09-07-2010, 04:28 PM
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Mike in CA
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Originally Posted by Edgy01
I'm glad I got in before the REAL focus of their engineering was merely to satisfy MPG requirements imposed by the Fed.
Yeah. I'd really hate to have a Porsche sports car with some of the engineering and technology from the 918 Spyder or the GT3 RS Hybrid or the Cayenne Hybrid.....
Old 09-07-2010, 04:58 PM
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yemenmocha
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Originally Posted by Ajax-Prime
It certainly wasn't absurd when the majority of folks who drove trucks and SUV's actually needed to drive trucks and SUV's.
And when was that, 1970's and prior?
Old 09-07-2010, 05:21 PM
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zanwar
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Will Porsche even care about the EPA and the US market in 2016? I thought the rest of the world already accounted for 80% of their total sales.
Old 09-07-2010, 06:05 PM
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_Nathan
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It's enough to make me want to go out and buy a Viper with a 600 hp 8.4 liter V10.
Old 09-07-2010, 06:05 PM
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Edgy01
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Originally Posted by zanwar
Will Porsche even care about the EPA and the US market in 2016? I thought the rest of the world already accounted for 80% of their total sales.

That is a VERY good point. With Porsche sales growing rapidly in the former 'third world' nations there may come a time when Porsche makes a business decision to withdraw certain models or their entire line from the North American market.
Old 09-07-2010, 06:54 PM
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Yeah, the hipocracy of the US laws pertaining to vehicles and emissions.

If you put an old-fashioned frame in the contraption, or make it a big boxy behemoths, it can be as inefficient as it wants to.

Make it sleek, small and modern, then you must get 100mpg..
Stupid. Congress wants all cars to be blocky, ugly and either econo-boxes or high-center of gravity off-road but hardly gets dirty frame-based truck platforms.

Congress is in the vehicle design business.. where it has no business.
Reminiscent of them defining an 'assault rifle' based on their own ignorant thinking of what cosmetic and accessory features make something 'dangerous'.
Old 09-07-2010, 06:54 PM
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Sean in Texas
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Originally Posted by yemenmocha
And when was that, 1970's and prior?
I'd call it late 80's
Old 09-07-2010, 07:07 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by Ajax-Prime
It certainly wasn't absurd when the majority of folks who drove trucks and SUV's actually needed to drive trucks and SUV's.
Well, the actual need is pretty straight forward, right? If you are licensed as farming equipment, you tow heavy loads (your registration fees should then go up as you are pulling heavy loads and putting more wear on the roads, just like semi's), you use it for 'offroading'... so your annual mileage should be much lower and baby seats and soccer mom transport are not applications...

The problem is that 95% of trucks and SUVs are used as 'cars' (only people & grocery carriers) but allowed to be less safe and consume more fuel per mile driven.
Old 09-07-2010, 08:29 PM
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While I agree the law is scary, I hold out hope that it will be modified. That said, it may not be too different than those in europe that taxed a car based on displacement. Its not a real suprise that the euro cars all have similar sized engines.. ie, for a long time, 2.0l cars were taxed less in italy (and elsewhere) and guess what, Ferrari sold a "208" verson of the US 308, to accomodate it.. Porsche sold the 2.0l 924.. There was another barier at 2.8l. as well iiirc.

So, in this case, the limit isn't directly on displacement, but on MPG. Euro cars currently contend with CO2 related emmission taxes.

I think the big issues are
1) there is no gradual, sliding scale to meet these efficiency goals
2) no one wants to pay an extra $40K for their 911
3) no one wants a 911 with a vw sourced 1.4l 200hp turbo

Just think, the future resale value of 911s could be assured since they can't make em like the old ones soon.
Old 09-07-2010, 10:59 PM
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There is no way Porsche makes 35.5 with only their own fleet, by 2016. No way, I don't care what their claims are. Even if the Boxster drops to a 4 cylinder turbo, no one will buy it, so its average as part of their fleet won't matter. As it is, I doubt few american buyers will purchase the base 3.4L 911, everybody will buy the S for the 2012 model year. And few will buy a hybrid Panamera either, Mercedes can't sell the S400 hybrid.

This administration will use Porsche to make an example of how they are "sticking it to the rich" for the sake of the environment.


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