csorrows

I looked at a 2006 Carrera 4 cab today that I'm really interested in, but wanted some opinions.

Here are the pros/cons of the car as I see them:

PROS:
- Really nice color combo, with some of the interior trip items in Speed Yellow, including the center console, instrument dials, and seat belts. Very sharp looking car!
- Cab (although I'm not looking specifically for a cab, and one of the cons for a cab might be can't participate in DE type events without additional roll protection?)
- Only 11k miles
- Has the Sport exhaust system
- 19" Carrera S wheels in black, with painted crest

CONS:
- Not an S model, so lacks the bigger engine, more HP, better brakes, and the other systems (PSM, PASM?)
- In service date was June 2006, so it's out of factory warranty. I have to CPO it or get a 3rd party warranty to have any coverage.
- BIGGEST CON: Has a M96 engine, so more subject to IMS failure

I was really hoping it was a M97 motor, but we put it on lifts and looked at the engine plate on the engine itself, and although it was covered with grime and kind of hard to read, I'm 90% sure it read "M96..."

EDIT: Even though the engine number plate reads "M96..." I've read that some M96 engine numbers actually still contain IMS improvements. Is this true??

If I get this car, I'm very worried about IMS failure, and want to make 100% positive that I'm covered by some kind of warranty against it, because I could not afford a $20k engine replacement if the IMS failed.

The dealer can CPO it for a $2k fee (always negotiable I know), or they also go through Fidelity as a 3rd-party warranty provider. They only do Fidelity Platinum plans, and the 3-year/36k mile plan was about $2700, compared with about $2000 for the Porsche CPO plan.

So, some questions and concerns I'd like advice on...

1. I was really looking at S models, but this one is a non-S. How much do you think I'd miss the extra HP in normal street driving? NOTE: I haven't driven the car yet myself (I have a rule that I never drive a car until the financing and numbers line up, and they're still waiting on word from potential lenders on financing terms, so I haven't driven it yet).

2. Is it really that much of a big deal to miss out on the other options such as PSM, PASM, etc, for normal daily driving?

3. They're asking right at $58k for the car. I've seen a handful of S models at this price, too. Does $58k seem out of whack for a non-S cab? I don't want my financial sensibility to be blinded by the fact I really like this color combo.

4. The biggest issue for me is the M96 engine. I must make sure any potential IMS problems are covered 100% under warranty, or else I'm walking away. The dealer sells Fidelity warranties, but only the Platinum plan (their highest offering). But given an IMS failure involves a $20k engine replacement, would I be better off going with the Porsche CPO plan, even though it only covers 2 years?

5. Regardless of the warranty I choose, should I get the IMS bearing proactively replaced with the LN Engineering one? Or would that void my warranty and I should just drive the **** out of it and hope for the best, and get any IMS failures covered under warranty with a new engine?

I've read enough about IMS issues that I'm not simply willing to just dismiss them...I must have some kind of warranty that covers them. If it were an M97 engine, I'd feel more comfortable about the deal, but since it's an M96, I'm more unsure about it.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated, and thanks!

cpbmd

I am looking forward to the answers? I have many of the same dilemmas and questions. Did you get a DME Scan printout on the car? I had not heard of it till reading all these great posts. I have seen a few on 997's I have been looking at. I am in the market for the same cars 06 or 07 C2 or S and would like to know if the S is really worth the extra $$. Also do all the clocks stick up on the dash like I have been seeing on these cars or is this just part of the sports chrono package?
All the regular CPO'd C2's with low mileage are around $58K from my research so far. Add the S and you go to $68K. In general the options don't effect the prices as much as I would have thought.

Thanks Constantine

alexb76

1. How much do you WANT an "S"? Do you track your car? If you don't track, it really doesn't make that much of a difference. I highly recommend to DRIVE the car first before making a decision if you need S or not. Your rule makes sense financially, but Porsche buying is all about how you LOVE the car! GOTTO DRIVE IT!

2. You got PSM. PASM is personal, I like it. However, I RARELY put it in Sport mode on the street, use it mostly on track.

3. Price is a bit high IMO, although very low milage. At least gotto throw CPO in.

4. Gotto get CPO for sure

5. That would void your warranty, if you're that much worried about IMS, FORGET THIS CAR, and find another. You do that upgrade if you already have a car with IMS issues, since you are going to buy one, and if you're that paranoid about it, I'd just skip to the next car.

Generally, I can sense you're a bit too worried about IMS failure, if that's gonna eat you alive, no matter how financially sound decision it is, I would look for other cars. Yours most likely has the upgraded IMS anyways as it's late 06 service date... so I wouldn't worry about it. CPO covers you for 2 years.

PS. I believe all non-S are M96 engines, so doesn't matter what year. Yours could be upgraded anyways as it's late 2006 car.

csorrows

@alexb76...

1. Well, I really started off wanting an S because I figured if I was spending this money money on a used car, I'd want the best, most powerful I can get. But I think now I'd be willing to trade off a few extra HP I may never notice for a really nice car. Not sure how often I'd track the car, if ever. Since it's a cab, I think I'd need extra roll bar protection anyway, and not sure I'd want to install that in the car. Mostly, it would be a daily driver.

I agree the 911 experience is about loving the car. I used to own a 1989 911. BUT...I never want to get attached to a car then pull out all the stops trying to buy it, which is why I have my "rule." If the numbers don't line up and I can't afford to sign on the dotted line and drive off with it, I don't even drive it. One reason why I've never driven an exotic like a Ferrari or Lambo. If I'm sure the numbers line up and I have a lender lined up and a payment plan I can live with, then I'll drive it.

2. So PSM is standard even on the non S models? I thought it was optional?

3 & 4. Yep, it's one of the lowest mileage cars I've seen in this area that I was interested in.

5. That's what I thought. I guess you just take your chances and if the IMS fails, then get it covered under CPO. I wanted to look at 2009 and later models to eliminate the IMS issue, but it's just not possible with my budget. So I'm trying to mitigate the IMS issue as much as I can, but still protect myself with a warranty. If the worst happens and the warranty covers it, oh well, at least the car has a new engine (well, rebuilt at least).

I wouldn't say the IMS issue is going to eat me alive. I fully intend this car is going to get 10k+ miles on it a year. I don't believe in letting a 911 sit in the garage, it's meant to be driven, and that's what I'd do. Whatever pre-2009 I do get, I'm going to drive the heck out of it, enjoy it, let the warranty cover whatever fails, and then in a couple years when it runs out, evaluate my options again. Maybe get an extended warranty at that point from a 3rd party company.

I'm not sure what the date of manufacture is, but the in service date was June 2006, so it was at least before then.

Thanks, and keep the ideas coming! I appreciate reading people's opinions!

ADias

You say you wanted a coupe and an S. Why don't you look for one?

alexb76

PSM is standard on all cars AFAIK.

IMS is not as big of an issue as you may think, if this was 2005 car, I'd say stay away, but since ur gonna get a CPO, late 2006 car it should be fine.

Again, you HAVE TO drive the car, I understand what you're saying, but the price difference between 997.1 C2, C4, and C2S is quite small, if you can afford one, you must be able to afford the other. It's not like comparing it with a Lambo, or brand new GT3! So I really don't understand your logic.

From your posts it sounds like you're more about a reliable, nice looking (i.e. color), low milage 997 instead of all the performance options. You don't even really care about Coupe vs. Cab, or RWD to AWD, so I'd find the best non-S you can get that financially makes sense.

At the end, get the BEST car you can get for the money you can afford, make sure it's in great condition, pick 06+ if you can, and make sure whoever's selling it (Porsche or others) can stand behind the car with CPO or similar warranty. After 2 years, can always get a 3rd party warranty if you're still worried.

Good luck!

PS. Just TEST DRIVE the damn car already! One of the funs of buying a Porsche is to test drive different cars!!!

niche

For 58k how about a 996 turbo cab?

bradyb

There are quite a few lower-mileage '06-'08 garage queens in the Bay Area so go out and drive a bunch of cars, figure out what you want (and don't want), and wait patiently. It's a painful process but I think you'll find what you want for a decent price. I waited for 4-5 months but pretty much found exactly what I was looking for.

Good luck!

Mspeedster

I think you're letting your IMS fears get the better of you.

IMS failures on the 997 are pretty rare compared to the 996 or the original Boxster. All 2006+ models are suppose to have the improved IMS bearing. At least on this site, I've yet to read about a report from an "actual owner" of a 2006+ car experiencing an IMS failure. That's not to say it hasn't or can't happen on a 06+, just seems very rare. Even the 2005 is suppose to be better than the 996, but there are some reports of IMS failures on the '05s.

This is from the LN Engineering website:

I'm personally not clear on the M96 vs M97 designations. I had read that M96 meant a 3.6L engine (non-S) and M97 meant 3.8L engine (Carrera S). But I could be wrong. Regardless, if the car is a MY06, it's suppose to have the improved IMS bearing whether an S or non-S.

csorrows

Dealer got back with me, and said the engine type is an M9605 (I've also seen this written as M96.05 or M96/05?)

Based on the research I've done, that one should have a "better" IMS setup. He also said the Porsche CPO warranty, and the Fidelity Platinum warranty would cover engine replacement in the event of IMS failure. But I know with 3rd party warranty providers, it's still a bit iffy because of all the fine print, which is why I think I'd still go with the CPO warranty even though it's only 2 years.

If I get the CPO warranty, does Porsche do the DME check for overrevs prior to certifying it? I read another thread here that said that's important to find out if the car has had any overrevs, and what RPM range they were in.

VGM911

I don't think there's anything any of us could say that would ease your fears about IMS. If you're fearful of possible future problems and it keeps you awake at night, don't buy it.

csorrows

Nope, as I wrote before, I'm aware the only way to completely avoid the IMS problem is to buy a 2009+, but that's not doable because it's out of my budget. So my next best thing is to MITIGATE the problem as much as I can, which now means buying a 2006+ that can be CPO'd, which is exactly what I'm looking at.

I'm not going to let IMS keep me up at night, but I am going to do everything I can to mitigate the concern. I wouldn't buy a model year 2005 for example, but I am willing to get a 2006+ with some of the IMS changes to the engine. That plus a CPO warranty is enough peace of mind for me.

utkinpol

Do PPI and DME scan, if it shows no overrevs - negotiate a lot.

I would not pay more than $50K-$52K for '06 car with CPO of course.
Budget is your decision just make sure you get CPO warranty with this car, you will like it when you will need it.

Some folks were able to get '09 PDK C2 cars for upper $60Ks - so, do you research. If you feel you can spend almost $60K - add up a bit and try to find leftover '09 car may be, you will love it.