Oil consumption - how much
07-25-2010, 08:09 PM
#31
Race Director
I truly think it is the piston Ring tension for the reason of the oil burning. I believe Porsche is trying to achieve lower friction with out having to do higher cost coatings on the pistons as a cost saving measure for Porsche.
As for the soot the dfi cars run a higher combustion chamber temp and Porsche is running the ECU in a rich mode to cool the combustion chamber temps.
Porsche engineers please correct me if I am wrong.
As for the soot the dfi cars run a higher combustion chamber temp and Porsche is running the ECU in a rich mode to cool the combustion chamber temps.
Porsche engineers please correct me if I am wrong.
07-25-2010, 09:34 PM
#32
I'll give them time to sort it out and see if they do the right thing...
Last edited by jakes dad; 07-25-2010 at 10:19 PM. Reason: speling and punchuation
07-25-2010, 10:45 PM
#33
Drifting
Porsche doesn't want to solve this problem. If they did, they would take a set of these customer cars with high consumption levels, buy them back, and tear down the motors and find out what is wrong. They could find out very fast what is going on. But then they would have to admit there was an issue.
07-26-2010, 01:10 AM
#35
Advanced
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: LA, Ca
Posts: 71
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I found this quote from a review by Top Speed in June 2009. It is talking about the new 997.2.
"At the same time Porsche’s engineers have enhanced the thermal and mechanical stability of the engine, making it even more robust by converting the design and configuration of the cylinders from open- to a closed-deck layout.
This means that the cylinder liners so far freely exposed around the cylinder gaskets are now connected with the housing by a top plate comprising the coolant sleeves. In particular, this helps to give the cylinders even greater stability in their shape and design, always remaining perfectly round. Two further advantages are the reduction of oil consumption and, thanks to less friction, even greater fuel economy."
I GUESS MY CAR WASN'T AWARE OF THIS
"At the same time Porsche’s engineers have enhanced the thermal and mechanical stability of the engine, making it even more robust by converting the design and configuration of the cylinders from open- to a closed-deck layout.
This means that the cylinder liners so far freely exposed around the cylinder gaskets are now connected with the housing by a top plate comprising the coolant sleeves. In particular, this helps to give the cylinders even greater stability in their shape and design, always remaining perfectly round. Two further advantages are the reduction of oil consumption and, thanks to less friction, even greater fuel economy."
I GUESS MY CAR WASN'T AWARE OF THIS
07-26-2010, 02:19 PM
#36
Instructor
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 227
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just wondering...
Does an engine that continuously burns oil inevitably fail prematurely?
For example, let's say one has a 997.2 that burns 1 quart of oil every 1000 miles. And it turns out to be indefinite and without remedy (perhaps some of the seals never set perfectly, imperfect break-in...). Are there necessarily going to be long-term consequences? Could the engine still do fine over the long term, say, to 150K or more miles? I myself would be willing to accept this if this indeed were the case--putting in 1 quart of oil ($6) every 1K mile forever would be something I could live with...
Does an engine that continuously burns oil inevitably fail prematurely?
For example, let's say one has a 997.2 that burns 1 quart of oil every 1000 miles. And it turns out to be indefinite and without remedy (perhaps some of the seals never set perfectly, imperfect break-in...). Are there necessarily going to be long-term consequences? Could the engine still do fine over the long term, say, to 150K or more miles? I myself would be willing to accept this if this indeed were the case--putting in 1 quart of oil ($6) every 1K mile forever would be something I could live with...
Last edited by hockeyguy; 07-26-2010 at 02:36 PM.
07-26-2010, 02:37 PM
#37
Advanced
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 67
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
At this point there is nothing I can do.. I'm trying to stay positive and suspect that if there is a problem with the engine that Porsche will resolve it. At this moment in time Porsche is claiming that it's normal oil usage... How do you fight that?
I'll give them time to sort it out and see if they do the right thing...
I'll give them time to sort it out and see if they do the right thing...
You can't fight it. I bought a new 2009 C2S Cab last november and it drank a quart of oil every 500 miles. The dealer told me to live with it for nothing could be done, for in the owners manual it states that 1.6 quarts every 600+ miles is acceptable. I took Porsche North America to arbritration and got zero results. Porsche has an attitude that they build the worlds best sport cars and screw you if you don't like it. I have owned Ferraris, Vettes, you name it and never had an oil problem. But finally, after four months and 4800 miles of ownership, I did find a way to solve the oil problem. I sold the car and bought another new Corvette. I have not added a drop of oil to the Vette. My Porsche stickered for 108K and the Vette (fully equipped 2010 Grand Sport convertible) stickered for 74K. For the extra 34K with the C2S Cab, you have the unique privilege of burning an absurd amount of oil.
07-26-2010, 02:37 PM
#38
Race Director
Just wondering...
Is is automatically bad if you're car always needs oil?
For example, let's say one has a 997.2 that burns 1 quart of oil every 1000 miles. And it turns out to be indefinite and without remedy (perhaps some of the seals never set perfectly, imperfect break-in...). Are there necessarily going to be long-term consequences? Could the engine still do fine over the long term, say, to 150K or more miles? I myself would be willing to accept this if this indeed were the case--putting in 1 quart of oil ($6) every 1K mile forever would really be no big deal to me....
Is is automatically bad if you're car always needs oil?
For example, let's say one has a 997.2 that burns 1 quart of oil every 1000 miles. And it turns out to be indefinite and without remedy (perhaps some of the seals never set perfectly, imperfect break-in...). Are there necessarily going to be long-term consequences? Could the engine still do fine over the long term, say, to 150K or more miles? I myself would be willing to accept this if this indeed were the case--putting in 1 quart of oil ($6) every 1K mile forever would really be no big deal to me....
For this car one might want to consider using Techron -- as per directions on the bottle -- in the gas maybe once a year to help clean engine of any deposits this additional oil consumption could cause. Furthermre, if one uses Techron and notices a change for the better perhaps a shorter span of time to the next time it used could be called for.
The O2 sensors or even the converters could suffer some degradation but there's no guarantee they will last 150K miles even if the engine used less even no oil. And modern oils have had some additives reduced or even removed to cut down on these affecting the sensors or converters.
If the engine is an "oil burner" and yet exhibits no other untoward behavior then chances are very good (quite good) there'll be no ramifications other than a bit higher running costs due to the increased oil consumption.
Sincerely,
Macster.
07-26-2010, 02:48 PM
#39
Advanced
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 67
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Why? The owners manual states this level of oil consumption is possible.
If that level of oil consumption that much of a negative to one's enjoyment of the car, then if one didn't want to risk getting a car that used towards the high end of this allowable consumption number he could always consider buying another brand of car.
However, I suspect many car makers list the same or nearly the same oil consumption numbers.
Sincerely,
Macster.
If that level of oil consumption that much of a negative to one's enjoyment of the car, then if one didn't want to risk getting a car that used towards the high end of this allowable consumption number he could always consider buying another brand of car.
However, I suspect many car makers list the same or nearly the same oil consumption numbers.
Sincerely,
Macster.
07-26-2010, 05:33 PM
#41
Instructor
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 227
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yes, I agree, no need to react like RonnieTheC.
It clearly overwhelmed any enjoyment he had for the car, and it made sense for him to dump it. I think in my case I'd have just lived with it, and maybe trade it in just before the warranty ran out if the oil burning continued to stay the same...
It clearly overwhelmed any enjoyment he had for the car, and it made sense for him to dump it. I think in my case I'd have just lived with it, and maybe trade it in just before the warranty ran out if the oil burning continued to stay the same...
07-26-2010, 05:59 PM
#42
Rennlist Member
What we haven't heard really is why the new engine in some cases has excess oil consumption while most of the older gen. engines were less prone to oil consumption? Is this just the nature of this engine, or something else is going on?
One thing's for sure, if it turns out that it's a bigger problem causing engine failure, Porsche will address it one way or another similar to how they fixed IMS issues, as if they didn't their own bottom line is at risk.
07-26-2010, 06:55 PM
#44
Instructor
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 227
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
JMan--
JMan--
With both an '09 C2S and C4S, you're the most qualified to tell us different feel between the two.
Ignoring the cabrio vs hardtop and perhaps rigidity difference, do you enjoy one of them more? Any real diffence in feel between rwd and awd in daily driving?
JMan--
With both an '09 C2S and C4S, you're the most qualified to tell us different feel between the two.
Ignoring the cabrio vs hardtop and perhaps rigidity difference, do you enjoy one of them more? Any real diffence in feel between rwd and awd in daily driving?
