"Widebody" Question
Nordschleife Master
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 8,391
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From: Southwest
Then it is old. The 997.1 C4/C4S use an old viscous coupler, which was available 15 years ago on the the 993 C4. I know it well, as I had it on a 996 C4. The new electronically controlled multi-plate clutches used in the 997.2 C4/C4S are far more transparent, but, as Dan said, higher maintenance.
Rennlist Member
Joined: Jul 2009
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From: Vancouver, BC
Part time 4WD systems are therefore mechanically simpler, cheaper, and tougher than AWD systems, and inherently better at making use of available traction. Part time 4WD transfer cases are also usually equipped with a gear reduction setting that multiplies torque for greater power at lower speeds, a vital feature for vehicles that will see much off road use. The drawback is that because it lacks a center differential, a part time 4WD system can only be used in low traction situations where the wheels have the ability to slip as needed.
For these reasons, full time AWD is appropriate for improving on road handling and is seen on cars and car based crossover SUVs, while traditional part time 4WD systems without center differentials, or with locking center differentials, are better for heavy duty use, such as off roading or deep snow, and are commonly seen on trucks and truck based SUVs.
For these reasons, full time AWD is appropriate for improving on road handling and is seen on cars and car based crossover SUVs, while traditional part time 4WD systems without center differentials, or with locking center differentials, are better for heavy duty use, such as off roading or deep snow, and are commonly seen on trucks and truck based SUVs.
Rennlist Member
Joined: Apr 2007
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From: Tejas Hill Country
...on a rally course made out of loose dirt. It's hardly a surprise that the C4's better ability to gain traction played a significant role in its ability to earn an extra half second over the C2 in the laps on that Top Gear episode. I don't think it's meaningful in any general sense, though.
At least in my experience (which, yes, includes plenty of track time, but all of it on paved roads and not rally courses) the RWD cars are more fun, more nimble, and more rewarding to drive. I wouldn't trade the benefits of a"2" for the advantages of a "4." If I did someday decide I wanted an AWD car I probably wouldn't get a 911, either. As you point out, if you want AWD balanced goodness you'd probably be happier with an R8 or a GT-R.
Two sundays ago I put 100 track miles on my GT3 in the pouring rain and didn't once wish I had drive wheels up front. I was having too much fun. That's really what it's all about.
At least in my experience (which, yes, includes plenty of track time, but all of it on paved roads and not rally courses) the RWD cars are more fun, more nimble, and more rewarding to drive. I wouldn't trade the benefits of a"2" for the advantages of a "4." If I did someday decide I wanted an AWD car I probably wouldn't get a 911, either. As you point out, if you want AWD balanced goodness you'd probably be happier with an R8 or a GT-R.
Two sundays ago I put 100 track miles on my GT3 in the pouring rain and didn't once wish I had drive wheels up front. I was having too much fun. That's really what it's all about.
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Joined: Jul 2009
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From: Vancouver, BC
...on a rally course made out of loose dirt. It's hardly a surprise that the C4's better ability to gain traction played a significant role in its ability to earn an extra half second over the C2 in the laps on that Top Gear episode. I don't think it's meaningful in any general sense, though.
When I had my Audi... in our group we had many super fast cars, GT3 RS, GT3, Ferrari, etc... they mostly kicked my a$$ in dry... BUT, I always made a fool out of them in the rain. Was probably the only car (apart from Subarus) that wished for the rain!
... not as much fun, maybe, but definitely faster in the rain!
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Joined: Apr 2007
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From: Tejas Hill Country
When I had my Audi... in our group we had many super fast cars, GT3 RS, GT3, Ferrari, etc... they mostly kicked my a$$ in dry... BUT, I always made a fool out of them in the rain. Was probably the only car (apart from Subarus) that wished for the rain! ... not as much fun, maybe, but definitely faster in the rain!
... not as much fun, maybe, but definitely faster in the rain!
Rennlist Member
Joined: Jul 2009
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From: Vancouver, BC
No need to squint, May's narration explicitly says that it was a course constructed "on the pitch." It was a rally course on a rugby field, not a paved track.
That's not surprising. I would expect this in the novice and intermediate level run groups where drivers have significantly less experience with wet driving and intentional slip. In the expert run groups you may find that AWD is less of a competitive advantage, even in the wet.
That's not surprising. I would expect this in the novice and intermediate level run groups where drivers have significantly less experience with wet driving and intentional slip. In the expert run groups you may find that AWD is less of a competitive advantage, even in the wet.
Even F1 drivers have a hard time controlling their cars in the rain... so when there's not enough traction in the rear, there's not enough traction!
Anyways we're going in circles... RWD and AWD both have different advantages and benefits, where RWD has the upper hand in dry and AWD in wet, in most cases. At the end, as someone else said, some are AWD people and some RWD.
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Rennlist Member
Joined: Apr 2007
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From: Tejas Hill Country
Ah, I guess I inferred too much from your other recent thread where you described yourself as a "Noobi." Sorry.
Agree we've sort of run this discussion to the end. Cheers.
Agree we've sort of run this discussion to the end. Cheers.
Rennlist Member
Joined: Jul 2009
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From: Vancouver, BC
Ah, I guess I inferred too much from your other recent thread where you described yourself as a "Noobi." Sorry.
Agree we've sort of run this discussion to the end. Cheers.
Agree we've sort of run this discussion to the end. Cheers.
Noobie 911, only tracked it once, it's got a totally different handling characteristic than Audi, front heavy car!
Rennlist Member
Joined: Apr 2007
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From: Tejas Hill Country
Nothing exciting, honestly.
I was a scrawny, 80lb, ten year old in elementary school when McDonald's introduced the "Chicken McNugget." My last name is McNett.
It took my classmates about three nanoseconds to make the aural connection between "McNett" and "McNugget" and that was the end of that story. Sometimes you just have to sway with the wind and accept what life delivers. I embraced the nickname that wasn't going to go away and I've been "McNugget" (later shortened to just "Nugget") ever since.
I don't even like the things. I'm more of a Chick-Fil-A guy.
I was a scrawny, 80lb, ten year old in elementary school when McDonald's introduced the "Chicken McNugget." My last name is McNett.
It took my classmates about three nanoseconds to make the aural connection between "McNett" and "McNugget" and that was the end of that story. Sometimes you just have to sway with the wind and accept what life delivers. I embraced the nickname that wasn't going to go away and I've been "McNugget" (later shortened to just "Nugget") ever since.
I don't even like the things. I'm more of a Chick-Fil-A guy.
Advanced
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 72
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From: Los Angeles
Hey guys,
Business is good and I have started shopping for my 997 (well, actually I've been shopping my entire life, but now it's a reality). I have had several pcars over the years but this will be my first 911. I am looking to buy an 06-07 C2 or C2S
I have been reviewing the 997 forum for several weeks and plan to take my time and get exactly what I want. I occasionally notice posts that mention "widebody". What does this mean? I went to Porsche.com and looked at the specs for the C2, C2S, C4, C4S, & TT. They all have the same body width with the exception of the TT at 71.18 inches the TT being 72.91 inches. And I assume the widest part on the 997 is at the rear fenders. So again, what does widebody mean? Is this just in reference to a TT, is there some type of factory package available, what am I missing?
My apologies if this question seems elementary, I'm just trying to get some clarity. Thanks.
Business is good and I have started shopping for my 997 (well, actually I've been shopping my entire life, but now it's a reality). I have had several pcars over the years but this will be my first 911. I am looking to buy an 06-07 C2 or C2S
I have been reviewing the 997 forum for several weeks and plan to take my time and get exactly what I want. I occasionally notice posts that mention "widebody". What does this mean? I went to Porsche.com and looked at the specs for the C2, C2S, C4, C4S, & TT. They all have the same body width with the exception of the TT at 71.18 inches the TT being 72.91 inches. And I assume the widest part on the 997 is at the rear fenders. So again, what does widebody mean? Is this just in reference to a TT, is there some type of factory package available, what am I missing?
My apologies if this question seems elementary, I'm just trying to get some clarity. Thanks.
http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/9...idebodies.html