Fahrer

Take a look at the new Toureg. It has many of the improvements that are reported for the Cayenne. If you get the Cayenne with the 6 cyl, I am sure it is the VW engine as before albeit with a bit more hp. With an 8 speed trans, the 6 cyl might work well.

richc

I like my Cayenne to be heavy, mass is a good thing in a crash with another vehicle. The thing is so far from being sporty I could care less if they shave weight off.

docjohnM

Bite yer' tongue son! If the M3 has a Krap interior, what say you about the nice shiny, cheap plastics in my 997.2S??? Oh! My eyes bleed when looking at the rock hard plastics from the 80's!
According to the C&D tests (to stay consistent),The M5 weighs 41 lbs more than the panamera, but has 12 cu/ft more interior space and hits 60mph 0.5 secs faster.....And it is not 'cutting-edge' like the porsche. Rather it is an old design. Is the panamera the best that porsche can do?? I mean, they got to study the M5 for 5 years before putting out their product. And gosh the panamera is only 15-30K more expensive than the M5.

docjohnM

Yep the panamera is huge from the outside, but not from the inside. To see all the numbers, go to C&D and download their test sheets and compare. It is quite unsettling. The 3 is a smidge bigger and the 5 is quite a bit bigger (on the inside where it counts!) The cutting edge techniques they use are truly and utterly useless if they produce no result. I used to marvel at all of that when I look at the brochures, but it is only flavoring for the Kool-aid. Shucks, mazda made the RX-8 with some amazing technology and they are pretty quiet about it. Porsche makes a sandwich and they call a press conference to brag!

Da Hapa

I just went to C&D and like Edmunds and Automobile, they have N/A listed for interior dimensions on the Panamera.

Again, I will happily state that I am wrong but having spent time inside both cars I simply can't believe there's more room in a 3 series than a Panamera. The backseat in the Panamera is HUGE. And the front seat is good sized too. The 3 series back seat is cramped to me and I'm only 5'6" tall.

I wonder if the fact that there's only two seats in the back of the Panamera are confusing the issue.

docjohnM

What you have to do is go to C&D and find a comparo of the cars you are looking for. To find the panamera, I think the title was called "the ugliest comparo winner ever". (i am not kidding!). When you get there, in the rt hand area, there is a box that says 'downloads" and you can download the exact spec box that you see in the mags as a PDF. Then search for the comparo of the M5 and a merc amg and S6. Do the same thing here, except for the fact that C&D left off the PDF on the end of the doc, so you will have to add it to open the stats. Then search for the test where the 335 just lost to the S4, repeat the above ritual. With these steps, you will have the Cu. ft. of each as well as weight and externals dimensions. You can also access the performance panels too. I usually don't like the opinions by C&D or their results...since I cant see how the M3 beat a 911 and cayman on a track intheir last test. Sounds fishy to me!

kosmo

there are a lot of #'s being mentioned here. Insofar as leg space, the P > 3.
Where the P loses is in head room.

I stand by my comment that the m3 interior is krap. I was at the dealer today getting a state inspection on my m5 and looked a several m3's. Not my cup of tea.

btw doc, the real street price gap b/w the m5 and P is larger when you consider that the P comes w/ nothing and that the m5 is being heavily discounted.

Gj325

You have to want the Pcar. If price was main factor None of us would have bought a Porsche.
This is like a Fcar owner fussing over Porsche Cheap prices with amazing Pref.

M3 is too small for me.M5 is larger but I prefer any Cayenne to it, Plus I see about 15 BMW SUV's to every Cayenne. dont like driving what everyone else is driving just because they have one.
Kind of like going a a drive and counting Corvettes to 911's 10 to 1 on a bad day.

996FourEss

Check out this post from classic and performance car on the new cayenne:
http://www.classicandperformancecar....e_cayenne.html
As far as I can tell, they road in the car but did not drive it. Interesting idea with the low first gear and the rear diff. Does anyone know if the 8 speed box has two reverse ratios (a la Mercedes Benz) or just one. From my not insignificant experience off road (mostly on the beach), going backwards is often as important when stuck as going forwards!