SARGEPUG

Here's a couple of prime "hottie" examples of accomplished drivers!
http://www.danicaracing.com/
http://www.milkaduno.com/

P.S. I have seen a number of Panameras on the road and I think it's a nice ride, the back is a little weak, but the positive aspects of the overall vehicle make up for the negatives by far. I would be torn between a Quattroporte and it and feel it is in a different class than an M5.

GreggT

BTW....that's often repeated but only partially true.....AG's financials were turning around even by the end of the 993.....no crystal ball here & no way to know how history would have been writen.
With 996, Pcar was already having success in shifting the market & demo it had addressed for years.

Trivia....one of the early things Wiedeking did (as Chair) was kill the sedan project....ironic his exit coincided with Pana.

George from MD

The Panamera did nothing to "save" Porsche- the company was lost when it was being introduced. It was not the first- but certainly the last- of Weideking's poorly timed pursuits with Porsche.

I don't understand those who embrace it- by any reasonable standards it's pretty darned unattractive and incredibly expensive. Performance wise, a Cadillac CTS V will trounce it at less than half the price (yes the Turbo too- do you think Porsche had the ***** to show up at Bob Lutz's challenge?) and there are plently of other cars in the same price range who offer virtually equal performance, more room and far better looks for less. And unlike the Porsche, the Cadillac and others offer a manual transmission. Do you think Porsche was marketing enthusiasts or posers?

I bet it will be gone in another five years or so. Piech doesn't need another performance/luxury vehicle to compete in what is a very limited and vastly over crowded niche market. And Porsche won't even provide sales projections. They're already being discounted- heavily.

What a shame as Porsche could have made a truly stunning and desirable high performance four door that any 911 owner would be proud to own. Aston Martin did.

Graygoose997

Outside of the one unit they might have produced for picture taking purposes, just how many 6 speed Caddy's do you think are out there ?
I'm betting the clutch supplier to Caddy is still waiting for the opening order.

George from MD

I know there's one cause a friend bought it. And I will tell you that while I'm no GM fan that is one VERY impressive car. And I have another friend who bought the V6 CTS- with a manual. That too is a very impressive car. So I'll bet there are a lot more Caddy manuals out there than you think.

I agreed to instruct at a Cadillac event this Summer so I'll also bet I will be seeing quite a few more. Cadillac never even used to hold DEs- now local dealers are sponsoring them and getting a fairly impressive turnout.

I know it's long been fashionable to diss GM and all but since they started offering the kind of performance that the Cadillac and ZO6 do for the price they're offering... well you can hide behind a badge of smug superiority for so long. Then you get your clock cleaned. Check out the Excellence issue featuring a Z06 v. GT2.

Porsche. Clock. Cleaned. At half the price. I can't wait to see them do a Pano v. Caddy shoot out. Then the Pano acolytes will try to defend the....I dunno....build quality? From the same people who brought you RMS?

Mike in CA

FWIW, according to Car and Driver a Panamera Turbo has beaten the Caddy 's Nordschliefe lap time; 7:56 to 7:59. I believe that makes it the fastest production sedan ever to run that course. Also, from R&T who recently tested both cars:

CST-V
0-60 4.1
1/4 mile 12.3@118.8
0-100 8.8
Top Speed 191
Skidpad .90g

Panamera Turbo
0-60 3.4
1/4 mile 11.7@118.0
0-100 8.4
Top Speed 188
Skidpad .96g

The Panamera Turbo's R&T 0-60 time above is no fluke as Car and Driver turned a 0-60 of 3.3. You can argue performance for the money if you like, but clock-cleaning? Don't think so.

Alan Smithee

Yeah, getting swallowed up by a big company like, say, VW would have been a real bummer.

alexb76

I have to agree with George to a point. Panamera is definitely a style miss, no matter how you look at it!

It is over-priced if one looks at the numbers alone... but then 997 is also over-priced, as well as Cayenne and the rest of Porsche line-up. I think Porsche are great as a whole, doing everything very well, while not being necessarily the best in one area alone (HP, 0-60, etc...).

kosmo

I've driven both but w/ more time in the Caddy w/ a stick. It IS an impressive car, however IMO the TT was better in every performance category. Whether the TT's is worth double the price is up to the buyer.
Frankly I like 75% of the Pany. I just cant get over that rear end. I can't deny!

inverterman

As far as the rear end, it will get the 997.2 LED tail lights in 2012 model year along with the Hybrid coming into the states. It appears that all the 1200 to be imported to the us are just about gone. Next year they expect to sell 6000.

George from MD

I understand the Caddy did it's Nordschleife run at the end of a series of test runs- with an automatic. The Pano was very, very well prepared and driven by Walter Rohrl. I agree that the Caddy isn't going to clean the Turbo's clock- by any means. But to get that close- or possibly beat the Turbo under equal conditions- for less than half the $? That's saying something IMO- the Cadillacs I remember had the turning circle of a great lakes freighter.

BTW I'll bet a $ they don't sell anywhere NEAR 6,000 Panos next year. The entire market is only 20K. They've sold some 800 so far and a big percentage of those are demos. You're also seeing a lot of first kid on the block sales that will severely diminish in time. Maybe 2 to 3 K at best I think.

LlBr

Car gurus on an investment channel said something which I personally experienced second hand with my friends caddy which was a POS as soon as you looked closely at the "luxury" details.

They said something like, "GM proved it can build a luxury car which shares only one attribute with BMW, MB etc: the price."

Sorry, just reporting my experience.

BTW, I would like to add. The positioning of your RMS claim is weakens your argument. It has to do with engine design. Porsche corrects RMS problems to 100% satisfaction (except for PITA of bringing car in).

SARGEPUG

I can't understand why some people would use a CTS-V as a comparison, it isn't in the same class. Who cares, what car smokes which and has more hp, etc. It shouldn't be all about that, that's for adolescent street racers. The Pamamera is in the higher class of the Quattroporte, Benz S, BMW 7, etc. It's about the car as a whole, not certain specs / figures. I would for sure rather own one over an S or 7, but I would take the Quattroporte over it.

Mike in CA

The Panamera was driven by Walter Rohrl. Just FYI, it was stock, with Sport Chrono and PCCB. The Caddy was driven by John Heinricy who is head of GM's perfromance division. He has had a long career as a race driver in Trans Am and American LeMans, with 11 national SCCA titles to his credit.

stevepow

I taught my wife to drive a stick when we were dating. Last time we both did a DE she beat my times and several of the other guys too. I thought it was pretty hot watching her make an M5 do it's thing.

She's no car nut - far from it, but seems to keep up peripherally.

We're hoping to save up for a trip to Birmingham for a Porsche DE and there's now way in hell she'd let me go without her.

And yes, she knows what a Panamera is.