Edgy01

Oh yea, all those tests are so worthwhile. How about just some real world driving?

Regarding the split between fronts and rears, one of our PCA members went out and thought he would save some money and bought some "Han%$%#$%#" tires (no name) despite what the tire shop told him. We were out on a run with him in his 996 Turbo. He was driving like a girl. Later he told me that there was something wrong with the car, and it felt very unsafe to go much about 60. He went back to the tire guy--and adopted their recommendation. The Han$#$#%$# tires went back and he was back to matching tires from/rear. With the AWD cars it is substantially a bigger deal.

Nugget

Fixed that for you.

dasams

[QUOTE=p-cardriver;7263537]
IMO some of this is nannying, some is lawyers, some is marketing, and some is fact. QUOTE]
+1 A good driver staying within his (or her) limits will do just fine. dave

russo

I can't figure out why a person that purchases a car in the six digits gets confused about the cost of tires, gas, and other incidentals. Yeah, I guess you could purchase a set of $100.00 tires and drive the car like a little old lady, but is that the reason to purchase a car? Or is it to drive the car in such a way that you get an invigorating feeling that makes you glad you dropped that amount of money on a depreciating asset?

dgcate

Right now, both rear tires have more than half tread left. One has a plug. The other is out of round. Therefore....one is not fit for the track, and the other is not even fit for the road. And....all for a mere grand.

If you look at the real costs of these tires, given the fact that tread is less than hafl gone....that makes them $1000/tire. One man's confusion is another man's obvious.

There's nothing wrong, inappropriate, illegitimate, or inconsistent about asking how to get more value than this out of these tires.

Right now I'm thinking Bridgestone.

dgcate

After reading other people's real world experiences in this thread with the cheaper brand tires, I may go cheaper than Bridgestone. ( You've shown me options I didn't know about). If I don't like them, given the experience I've had with Pirelli's, what, exactly have I lost?

Very little.




....and Dan, PM me on where to get retreads. That idea piqued my interest the most!

SARGEPUG

Is this a chronic problem w/ the Pirellis on Carreras? I had PZeros on my 08' CLK 550. Car had a lot of power, 382 / 391 w/ 75% of peak torque available @ 1,000 rpm! Just a little throttle off a stop would spin the rear and they were wasted @ 7,000 miles and I wasn't hard on them. I did expect this however, given the soft, high performance compound and the power of the engine. However I did not experiance any "out of round" issues. I then replaced them w/ Eagle F1 all seasons and liked them a lot, but it was my daily driver at the time. Given that my 911 is a toy, I will keep the softest, high performance rubber on her, cause that is what I bought the car for, peak performance and thrills!

equiraptor

I come from the Miata world, where a good, running car can be bought for a mere $2,000, so perhaps my perspective is a bit different. Still, here's my perspective on it:

There are "crappy cheap tires" and there are "cheap tires that are a good deal". There are long-wearing, low grip tread compounds and quick wearing, high grip compounds. There are also different ways to have fun.

Some people enjoy putting a relatively low grip tire on their car. Lower grip tires make slip happen at lower speeds and some people enjoy that slip. This point of view also gets you tires that last more miles and cost less to buy in the first place. If you choose to do this, be sure you're aware of the increased stopping distance you'll have and the lessened emergency avoidance capability. Others prefer higher lateral G and quicker stopping distance for their version of fun. These tires will stop you quicker in panic braking and will allow for stronger direction changes in emergency situations, in addition to giving you higher G forces when you play, but they tend to cost more and they wear faster.

First, decide which level of grip fits your safety concerns, version of "fun," and wants for tire life. Then, within that level of grip, look for a tire from a good maker that is in the price range you want. For my street tires, I prefer the grippy tires - the ones TireRack lists as "Extreme Performance Summer." In that range, I compare dry grip, wet grip, feedback characteristics, heat tolerance, and price. The last time I did this, I chose the Kumho XS.

I've had Dunlop Z1 Star Spec (140 treadwear) and Dunlop DZ101 (400 treadwear) on my car (all four the same, same wheels, on on different days). I greatly prefer the Star Spec, even for simple street use. The DZ101 have a noticeably longer stopping distance, which really bothers me. They'll also chirp, and sometimes even slip, going into 2nd gear... on a Miata. The tires cannot keep up with my style of driving.

dgcate, you mentioned one of your tires is not fit for the track. I don't know if you're planning on taking whichever tires you choose out to the track, but if you are... Those DZ101, the 400 treadwear tires? I tracked them. It was horrible. It was so bad, I gave up on driving "correctly" at the track day and treated it as a drifting session. On the "warm up" lap, the tires were cold and had very little grip. The grip was predictable, but there was very little of it. When the tires were warm, they had some grip. It wasn't a lot of grip, but one wouldn't expect a lot from 400 treadwear tires. But I'd only get in about 2 laps with the tires "warm" before they'd go past warm and overheat. At this point, they'd get that "greasy" feel, where the car just slips so much more easily. I pulled off to check tire pressure and the tire pressures were only about 5psi above cold (and were right where I'd have wanted them in the Star Specs). I went back out and kept driving. After a lap or so at the "greasy" feel, they went past that. They became thoroughly overcooked and went from "greasy" to "flat out unpredictable". In one corner on one lap the front would just completely lose grip. The next time through, same corner, it'd be the back that just gave up. Sometimes I'd have no grip at all. Sometimes I'd have grip. And the tires went through all of these stages in less than 10 minutes on track. Had this been an HPDE, rather than a member session, I couldn't have gone the full 25 minutes. I just didn't have enough tire!

I parked the car and let the tires cool down. When I went back out, instead of doing normal "lapping" sessions, I took advantage of the empty track and the low grip tires and practiced my drifting skills.

So... If you're planning on taking the tires to the track, make sure you get something that can handle the heat. Otherwise, track days just suck.

Palmbeacher

Thanks for the differing opinions regarding putting different manufacturer tires on rear and front. I think given I rarely drive it more than 45 mph and all the roads here are flat and straight, I don't think I'd ever be called on to perform an evasive maneuver where mismatched tires would cause a safety problem. I was only concerned about things like throwing the alignment off or wearing out suspension/steering components prematurely. I would only be mismatching them until the front ones wear out, then I'd put the same brand as on the rear from then on. I mismatched front/rear on other cars many times without issue, and those were cars that called for identical sizes/treads on all four.

85Gold

Common problem, for the cost of 2 rears you have almost paid for a full set of RE11's.

Don't confuse COST of the tires with less expensive equalling bad. On my ex GT3 the AD07s were 2.5 sec faster than PS2's @ Sebring same day test in 2008. The only Knock on AD07's was they were horrible in the wet. The new AD08 cured that problem and are still fast in the dry.

Peter

GSIRM3

My previous experience with Pirellis was similar to OP. They tended to flat spot very easily and hard to balance. However, my current 2008 997S came with PZero Rossa and I have had no issues with them. I was concerned about the tires when I saw that was what the car came with from factory. To be honest, I like them as well as I did the PS2 on my previous 997S. I don't track the car, so I am only talking about street use. That said, still not sure I would by them again ,other than one replacement cycle on the rear, because of my previous negative experience with Pirelli.

Mother

Been very happy with my Vredestein in 19" and where reasonable $200-300 per tire very quite, hold the road well and wear little for 5000 miles and even like the tread design. Just hope they still sell in US when I need a new set.

http://www.vredestein.com

tooloud10

How else would you rate different aspects of tires other than testing them in controlled conditions? What part of the tire tests aren't worthwhile?

FWIW, "real world driving" doesn't tell us much about a tire at all. Virtually any tire could handle my daily commute, but I want to see panic braking distances, maximum grip, multiple acceleration runs, etc.

WRT "don't buy an expensive car and put inexpensive tires on it", I'd remind everyone that the most expensive isn't necessarily the best and the least expensive isn't necessarily the worst. I guess I don't buy anything based on price, I buy almost everything based on "value", and there are some great values out there.

Clifton

Let's see, professional testing vs. hear say and semi-aggressive street driving. Did your friend get an alignment after doing a full tire swap?

I can attest to Hankook's performance with real world driving in my own personal car. No one can blame you for not liking them, but making the claims that you have in your posts is just hot air and nothing more.

Quadcammer

Thats a really awesome story but unfortunately its simply a useless anecdote.