Clutch dumps & Warranties etc.
01-19-2010 | 08:18 PM
#19
Poseur
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Rennlist Member
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 17,720
Likes: 245
From: Santa Barbara, CA
I'm sorry to hear that you paid way over top dollar for that car. Over a year ago a friend of mine bought a low-mileage 06 S Coupe for that money. And it had plenty of warranty left--still has.
There are grades of 'driving like you stole it.' You don't need to baby your Porsche but you should avoid trashing it. These are tough cars but not designed to be abused. I don't abuse my car, but I certainly don't drive it like a granny on Sundays. You have to be prepared to anti-up when it comes to driving these cars. If you are going to be racing it or driving it hard you need to budget accordingly. Make sure you have parts money because you will need it.
If the engine has a preexisting issue with it the seller needs to sort that out. If that means that they work with a certified Porsche dealership who can diagnose the problem and suggest a course of treatment, then that's what needs to be done. If they refuse to work with you then contact your state Attorney General. I'm assuming the you elected not to pay for an extended warranty.
I'm sorry that you came to the Rennlist so late. Had you visited here before you bought you might have learned a few things about what to avoid and what a good price was for a 21,700 mile 05 S.
There are grades of 'driving like you stole it.' You don't need to baby your Porsche but you should avoid trashing it. These are tough cars but not designed to be abused. I don't abuse my car, but I certainly don't drive it like a granny on Sundays. You have to be prepared to anti-up when it comes to driving these cars. If you are going to be racing it or driving it hard you need to budget accordingly. Make sure you have parts money because you will need it.
If the engine has a preexisting issue with it the seller needs to sort that out. If that means that they work with a certified Porsche dealership who can diagnose the problem and suggest a course of treatment, then that's what needs to be done. If they refuse to work with you then contact your state Attorney General. I'm assuming the you elected not to pay for an extended warranty.
I'm sorry that you came to the Rennlist so late. Had you visited here before you bought you might have learned a few things about what to avoid and what a good price was for a 21,700 mile 05 S.
01-19-2010 | 08:18 PM
#20
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,900
Likes: 83
From: Vancouver, BC
01-20-2010 | 11:20 AM
#21
Thread Starter
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 59
Likes: 0
From: Houston TX
"As-Is" just implies that there is no warranty included with the car. And that the dealer is not responsible if the car breaks down... You get that form here in the US with every car you buy new or used. So you have to sign it or you don’t get the car.
I have some interesting info that I got from the Porsche dealer yesterday as well as some feedback from the dealership I bought the car from.
Here’s the over rev ECU log from the car:
Total running hours on the car: 593 (I have had it for about 200 miles or 5 - 8hrs run time)
Range 1
Ignitions - 65535 Hour 592.3
Range 2
Ignitions - 65535 Hour 592
Range 3
Ignitions - 22432 Hour 589.5
Range 4
Ignitions - 3445 Hour 581.9
Range 5
Ignitions - 763 Hour 567
Range 6
Ignitions 0 Hour 0
Range 5 is from 8200 to 9000 RPM BTW. Someone mis-shifted and bent valves. I believe this is called a "Money shift"?? lol
The stuff in range 4 - 6 is what will void a warranty. So Porsche of North Houston saw that and said that the new engine warranty is void. I called the dealership in Austin that installed the new engine and they saved a copy of the over rev log prior to installing the new engine. So I have numbers to compare from before the swap and after. I asked the North Houston dealership if Porsche would honor with warranty if we provided them with the before and after docs that show the new engine failed and it had nothing to with over revs. ECU can’t be cleared. He said "I have no way of knowing what the over revs were before the new engine" I said "The dealership in Austin has that log printout, can you call them and get it?" he said no. Then while I was sitting there the dealership that I bought the car from called me and said they would pay for a new motor from P. SO I changed gears. I then asked the service manager if they would warranty the engine if paid cash for a new one. He said "I don’t know if Porsche NA will honor the warranty with these over revs in the ECU" I then asked "Can you call them and find out?" He said no. At that point I was just asking him loaded questions. I already knew he wouldn’t help me. But I was so dumbfounded at his responses. I was entertaining myself by asking q's and listening to his answers. But after he told me that he would not make a simple phone call to PNA I simply said "Ok, I don’t want to do business with you" and I turned around and walked out.
I hear that there is a possibility this dealership might be going out of business. It blows my mind that I told this guy the previous owner of the car would pay cash to put another engine in the car. And he would not even make a phone call to PNA to see if documenting before and after over revs would make the warranty honorable.
I am going to be calling the dealership and asking for the GM. Then I will explain my situation. But I will not take the car back there. I am going to trailer it up to the dealer in Austin and let them swap the motor.
But at the end of the day I have options:
1) The dealer offered to take the car back and give me my Cayman back or sell me another car.
2) Dealer offered to replace the engine at no cost to me with a crate engine from Porsche.
3) Might be something that Porsche will cover under warranty. I am sending documentation to the Austin dealership and they are going to call PNA.
Service guy at Porsche North Houston that needs MAJOR training in basic customer service and running a profitable business is Dave Moore. I plan to stay far away from that place.
Ill find out today which option will be best.
Comments are welcome.
Steven
I have some interesting info that I got from the Porsche dealer yesterday as well as some feedback from the dealership I bought the car from.
Here’s the over rev ECU log from the car:
Total running hours on the car: 593 (I have had it for about 200 miles or 5 - 8hrs run time)
Range 1
Ignitions - 65535 Hour 592.3
Range 2
Ignitions - 65535 Hour 592
Range 3
Ignitions - 22432 Hour 589.5
Range 4
Ignitions - 3445 Hour 581.9
Range 5
Ignitions - 763 Hour 567
Range 6
Ignitions 0 Hour 0
Range 5 is from 8200 to 9000 RPM BTW. Someone mis-shifted and bent valves. I believe this is called a "Money shift"?? lol
The stuff in range 4 - 6 is what will void a warranty. So Porsche of North Houston saw that and said that the new engine warranty is void. I called the dealership in Austin that installed the new engine and they saved a copy of the over rev log prior to installing the new engine. So I have numbers to compare from before the swap and after. I asked the North Houston dealership if Porsche would honor with warranty if we provided them with the before and after docs that show the new engine failed and it had nothing to with over revs. ECU can’t be cleared. He said "I have no way of knowing what the over revs were before the new engine" I said "The dealership in Austin has that log printout, can you call them and get it?" he said no. Then while I was sitting there the dealership that I bought the car from called me and said they would pay for a new motor from P. SO I changed gears. I then asked the service manager if they would warranty the engine if paid cash for a new one. He said "I don’t know if Porsche NA will honor the warranty with these over revs in the ECU" I then asked "Can you call them and find out?" He said no. At that point I was just asking him loaded questions. I already knew he wouldn’t help me. But I was so dumbfounded at his responses. I was entertaining myself by asking q's and listening to his answers. But after he told me that he would not make a simple phone call to PNA I simply said "Ok, I don’t want to do business with you" and I turned around and walked out.
I hear that there is a possibility this dealership might be going out of business. It blows my mind that I told this guy the previous owner of the car would pay cash to put another engine in the car. And he would not even make a phone call to PNA to see if documenting before and after over revs would make the warranty honorable.
I am going to be calling the dealership and asking for the GM. Then I will explain my situation. But I will not take the car back there. I am going to trailer it up to the dealer in Austin and let them swap the motor.
But at the end of the day I have options:
1) The dealer offered to take the car back and give me my Cayman back or sell me another car.
2) Dealer offered to replace the engine at no cost to me with a crate engine from Porsche.
3) Might be something that Porsche will cover under warranty. I am sending documentation to the Austin dealership and they are going to call PNA.
Service guy at Porsche North Houston that needs MAJOR training in basic customer service and running a profitable business is Dave Moore. I plan to stay far away from that place.
Ill find out today which option will be best.
Comments are welcome.
Steven
01-20-2010 | 12:14 PM
#23
Race Director
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 19,034
Likes: 254
From: Centerton, AR
"As-Is" just implies that there is no warranty included with the car. And that the dealer is not responsible if the car breaks down... You get that form here in the US with every car you buy new or used. So you have to sign it or you don’t get the car.
I have some interesting info that I got from the Porsche dealer yesterday as well as some feedback from the dealership I bought the car from.
Here’s the over rev ECU log from the car:
Total running hours on the car: 593 (I have had it for about 200 miles or 5 - 8hrs run time)
Range 1
Ignitions - 65535 Hour 592.3
Range 2
Ignitions - 65535 Hour 592
Range 3
Ignitions - 22432 Hour 589.5
Range 4
Ignitions - 3445 Hour 581.9
Range 5
Ignitions - 763 Hour 567
Range 6
Ignitions 0 Hour 0
Range 5 is from 8200 to 9000 RPM BTW. Someone mis-shifted and bent valves. I believe this is called a "Money shift"?? lol
The stuff in range 4 - 6 is what will void a warranty. So Porsche of North Houston saw that and said that the new engine warranty is void. I called the dealership in Austin that installed the new engine and they saved a copy of the over rev log prior to installing the new engine. So I have numbers to compare from before the swap and after. I asked the North Houston dealership if Porsche would honor with warranty if we provided them with the before and after docs that show the new engine failed and it had nothing to with over revs. ECU can’t be cleared. He said "I have no way of knowing what the over revs were before the new engine" I said "The dealership in Austin has that log printout, can you call them and get it?" he said no. Then while I was sitting there the dealership that I bought the car from called me and said they would pay for a new motor from P. SO I changed gears. I then asked the service manager if they would warranty the engine if paid cash for a new one. He said "I don’t know if Porsche NA will honor the warranty with these over revs in the ECU" I then asked "Can you call them and find out?" He said no. At that point I was just asking him loaded questions. I already knew he wouldn’t help me. But I was so dumbfounded at his responses. I was entertaining myself by asking q's and listening to his answers. But after he told me that he would not make a simple phone call to PNA I simply said "Ok, I don’t want to do business with you" and I turned around and walked out.
I hear that there is a possibility this dealership might be going out of business. It blows my mind that I told this guy the previous owner of the car would pay cash to put another engine in the car. And he would not even make a phone call to PNA to see if documenting before and after over revs would make the warranty honorable.
I am going to be calling the dealership and asking for the GM. Then I will explain my situation. But I will not take the car back there. I am going to trailer it up to the dealer in Austin and let them swap the motor.
But at the end of the day I have options:
1) The dealer offered to take the car back and give me my Cayman back or sell me another car.
2) Dealer offered to replace the engine at no cost to me with a crate engine from Porsche.
3) Might be something that Porsche will cover under warranty. I am sending documentation to the Austin dealership and they are going to call PNA.
Service guy at Porsche North Houston that needs MAJOR training in basic customer service and running a profitable business is Dave Moore. I plan to stay far away from that place.
Ill find out today which option will be best.
Comments are welcome.
Steven
I have some interesting info that I got from the Porsche dealer yesterday as well as some feedback from the dealership I bought the car from.
Here’s the over rev ECU log from the car:
Total running hours on the car: 593 (I have had it for about 200 miles or 5 - 8hrs run time)
Range 1
Ignitions - 65535 Hour 592.3
Range 2
Ignitions - 65535 Hour 592
Range 3
Ignitions - 22432 Hour 589.5
Range 4
Ignitions - 3445 Hour 581.9
Range 5
Ignitions - 763 Hour 567
Range 6
Ignitions 0 Hour 0
Range 5 is from 8200 to 9000 RPM BTW. Someone mis-shifted and bent valves. I believe this is called a "Money shift"?? lol
The stuff in range 4 - 6 is what will void a warranty. So Porsche of North Houston saw that and said that the new engine warranty is void. I called the dealership in Austin that installed the new engine and they saved a copy of the over rev log prior to installing the new engine. So I have numbers to compare from before the swap and after. I asked the North Houston dealership if Porsche would honor with warranty if we provided them with the before and after docs that show the new engine failed and it had nothing to with over revs. ECU can’t be cleared. He said "I have no way of knowing what the over revs were before the new engine" I said "The dealership in Austin has that log printout, can you call them and get it?" he said no. Then while I was sitting there the dealership that I bought the car from called me and said they would pay for a new motor from P. SO I changed gears. I then asked the service manager if they would warranty the engine if paid cash for a new one. He said "I don’t know if Porsche NA will honor the warranty with these over revs in the ECU" I then asked "Can you call them and find out?" He said no. At that point I was just asking him loaded questions. I already knew he wouldn’t help me. But I was so dumbfounded at his responses. I was entertaining myself by asking q's and listening to his answers. But after he told me that he would not make a simple phone call to PNA I simply said "Ok, I don’t want to do business with you" and I turned around and walked out.
I hear that there is a possibility this dealership might be going out of business. It blows my mind that I told this guy the previous owner of the car would pay cash to put another engine in the car. And he would not even make a phone call to PNA to see if documenting before and after over revs would make the warranty honorable.
I am going to be calling the dealership and asking for the GM. Then I will explain my situation. But I will not take the car back there. I am going to trailer it up to the dealer in Austin and let them swap the motor.
But at the end of the day I have options:
1) The dealer offered to take the car back and give me my Cayman back or sell me another car.
2) Dealer offered to replace the engine at no cost to me with a crate engine from Porsche.
3) Might be something that Porsche will cover under warranty. I am sending documentation to the Austin dealership and they are going to call PNA.
Service guy at Porsche North Houston that needs MAJOR training in basic customer service and running a profitable business is Dave Moore. I plan to stay far away from that place.
Ill find out today which option will be best.
Comments are welcome.
Steven
As quick as you can, get your Cayman back and give the 997 back to the dealer and then take a deep breathe and a few days to settle down then start your search for another car.
If you fnd a car you can't reject and want to buy then have a PPI done. Be sure overrev counts are pulled.
Do not buy an ex "race" car, ever.
Sincerely,
Macster.
01-20-2010 | 12:16 PM
#24
Thread Starter
Rennlist Member
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 59
Likes: 0
From: Houston TX
I thought about that. The dealership in Austin has been great and they have all the service records. Extensive work (Upgrades/Mods/engine swap) has been done to the car and they have done every bit of it. I feel 150% confident taking it to them for the work. The other dealers, not so much. I feel like Autsin Porsche has my best intrest in mind.
Thanks again,
Steven
Thanks again,
Steven
01-20-2010 | 12:28 PM
#25
Rennlist Member
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,902
Likes: 23
From: MA
"As-Is" just implies that there is no warranty included with the car. And that the dealer is not responsible if the car breaks down... You get that form here in the US with every car you buy new or used. So you have to sign it or you don’t get the car.
I have some interesting info that I got from the Porsche dealer yesterday as well as some feedback from the dealership I bought the car from.
Here’s the over rev ECU log from the car:
Total running hours on the car: 593 (I have had it for about 200 miles or 5 - 8hrs run time)
Range 1
Ignitions - 65535 Hour 592.3
Range 2
Ignitions - 65535 Hour 592
Range 3
Ignitions - 22432 Hour 589.5
Range 4
Ignitions - 3445 Hour 581.9
Range 5
Ignitions - 763 Hour 567
Range 6
Ignitions 0 Hour 0
I have some interesting info that I got from the Porsche dealer yesterday as well as some feedback from the dealership I bought the car from.
Here’s the over rev ECU log from the car:
Total running hours on the car: 593 (I have had it for about 200 miles or 5 - 8hrs run time)
Range 1
Ignitions - 65535 Hour 592.3
Range 2
Ignitions - 65535 Hour 592
Range 3
Ignitions - 22432 Hour 589.5
Range 4
Ignitions - 3445 Hour 581.9
Range 5
Ignitions - 763 Hour 567
Range 6
Ignitions 0 Hour 0
Gearbox is probably abused too.
Frankly I do not know why do you want this car, unless you intend to run it to 9K RMP yourself and install new engine/gearbox/clutch every racing season. I would never bought such car. If you can revert deal back - do it, IMHO it is best way as there is plenty of cars out there without such complications.
Or you can race it to death now but then forget about warranty and accept full responsibility for any damages.
01-20-2010 | 12:30 PM
#26
Rennlist Member
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,900
Likes: 83
From: Vancouver, BC
If the dealer that sold you this 997 car is willing to take it back and give you back your Cayman what the heck are you online for? Take the deal!
As quick as you can, get your Cayman back and give the 997 back to the dealer and then take a deep breathe and a few days to settle down then start your search for another car.
If you fnd a car you can't reject and want to buy then have a PPI done. Be sure overrev counts are pulled.
Do not buy an ex "race" car, ever.
Sincerely,
Macster.
As quick as you can, get your Cayman back and give the 997 back to the dealer and then take a deep breathe and a few days to settle down then start your search for another car.
If you fnd a car you can't reject and want to buy then have a PPI done. Be sure overrev counts are pulled.
Do not buy an ex "race" car, ever.
Sincerely,
Macster.
As I said earlier, this whole thing smelled to begin with. "As-is", raced out car, buddy was salesperson, engine changed without warranty, etc...
If you can return the car, DO IT! Even if you're out $1000! Why do you even wanna go through the hassle,pain and the time to replace, fix the engine! Not that you paid under market value for this car!
On another note, I would highly recommend looking into your buddy's integrity and friendship. I'd be SUPER PISSED if my buddy recommended and closed a car like this for me!
Good luck!
01-20-2010 | 12:41 PM
#27
Rennlist Member
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,902
Likes: 23
From: MA
DITTO! I've NEVER seen that many over-revs on an engine. The car wasn't only raced but driven extremely poor by some idiots who didn't know how to downshift!
As I said earlier, this whole thing smelled to begin with. "As-is", raced out car, buddy was salesperson, engine changed without warranty, etc...
If you can return the car, DO IT! Even if you're out $1000! Why do you even wanna go through the hassle,pain and the time to replace, fix the engine! Not that you paid under market value for this car!
On another note, I would highly recommend looking into your buddy's integrity and friendship. I'd be SUPER PISSED if my buddy recommended and closed a car like this for me!
Good luck!
As I said earlier, this whole thing smelled to begin with. "As-is", raced out car, buddy was salesperson, engine changed without warranty, etc...
If you can return the car, DO IT! Even if you're out $1000! Why do you even wanna go through the hassle,pain and the time to replace, fix the engine! Not that you paid under market value for this car!
On another note, I would highly recommend looking into your buddy's integrity and friendship. I'd be SUPER PISSED if my buddy recommended and closed a car like this for me!
Good luck!
If car was modded with racing ECU it could be not downshifted but just pushed into those hi revs. You never know.
01-20-2010 | 12:42 PM
#28
Thread Starter
Rennlist Member
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 59
Likes: 0
From: Houston TX
I will be the first to admit, I don’t always make good decisions. I could be making a bad decision knowingly but I still do it. But I don’t want any 997. I want this one. If I take it back then I wouldn’t get another, most likely. When I bought this one I wasn’t on the market. Hell I was shopping for a friend and saw this one. And had to have it. To me, the fact that it was a race car makes me want it even more. Every aspect of this car is completely flawless. I am passionate about Porsche but even more with this car. I will be satisfied if I can get the car fixed.
01-20-2010 | 12:46 PM
#29
Rennlist Member
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,902
Likes: 23
From: MA
I will be the first to admit, I don’t always make good decisions. I could be making a bad decision knowingly but I still do it. But I don’t want any 997. I want this one. If I take it back then I wouldn’t get another, most likely. When I bought this one I wasn’t on the market. Hell I was shopping for a friend and saw this one. And had to have it. To me, the fact that it was a race car makes me want it even more. Every aspect of this car is completely flawless. I am passionate about Porsche but even more with this car. I will be satisfied if I can get the car fixed.
There is nothing wrong in that, it is just money. If you do want a race car then probably it will cost you less to repair gearbox than to install all the same mods into stock car to convert it into another car like this one. Judge for yourself what expenses you would be looking at in both cases.
01-20-2010 | 12:54 PM
#30
Rennlist Member
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,900
Likes: 83
From: Vancouver, BC
I will be the first to admit, I don’t always make good decisions. I could be making a bad decision knowingly but I still do it. But I don’t want any 997. I want this one. If I take it back then I wouldn’t get another, most likely. When I bought this one I wasn’t on the market. Hell I was shopping for a friend and saw this one. And had to have it. To me, the fact that it was a race car makes me want it even more. Every aspect of this car is completely flawless. I am passionate about Porsche but even more with this car. I will be satisfied if I can get the car fixed.
I honestly re-visit it though, there are MANY amazingly clean 997s around, with lower mileage, same color, and more options, and lower price!!! Note that you can change the seats/steering wheel yourself on any car you find for a lot less than the cost of a new engine!!!