Will the 997's depreciate as badly as the 996?
01-05-2010, 09:51 PM
#61
Drifting
I am amused by 997.1 owners talking about how the 997's had fewer engine problems than the 996s. The M96 engines and the M97 engines are basically identical, same IMS, same open deck design. there are many IMS failures in the 997's, you see them/read about them all the time. Yes Porsche made some changes to the IMS in 2006, but it was still the sealed bearing.
The release of the 997.2, with the new engine, no IMS, no open deck, etc. will have a big impact on the 997.1's. And it is still to be seen what new problems come up with these engines. But if they follow suit with other Porsches (and other cars too) there will be issues.
Your kidding yourselfs if you think that the 997's won't depreciate just as much as the 996's. My 2000 996 has lost 75% to 80% of its value/cost. 5 year old 997's have already lost 50%+ of their value, and brand new ones are being sold for 20% below sticker.
Buy the cars to drive them and because you love them, and if you are smart you will buy a used one that has already taken a big hit. But I would wait for a 997.2, in a year or so they will be 50%-60% of sticker.
The release of the 997.2, with the new engine, no IMS, no open deck, etc. will have a big impact on the 997.1's. And it is still to be seen what new problems come up with these engines. But if they follow suit with other Porsches (and other cars too) there will be issues.
Your kidding yourselfs if you think that the 997's won't depreciate just as much as the 996's. My 2000 996 has lost 75% to 80% of its value/cost. 5 year old 997's have already lost 50%+ of their value, and brand new ones are being sold for 20% below sticker.
Buy the cars to drive them and because you love them, and if you are smart you will buy a used one that has already taken a big hit. But I would wait for a 997.2, in a year or so they will be 50%-60% of sticker.
01-06-2010, 10:00 AM
#62
Race Car
I will say the C4S in 996 guise is the ONLY 996 I'd entertain but still...the 997 is much more prettier overall. What saves the 996 C4S is that red taillight that runs across the back and the scoops on the front bumper.
01-06-2010, 11:17 AM
#63
Nordschleife Master
Needless to say they both didn't know much about 911's but you get the point. Also not the only time that someone who doesn't know Porsche's has said that.
01-06-2010, 11:26 AM
#64
Rennlist Member
Probably no way to really convince anyone one way or the other given the subjectivity is taste. I just have a hard time seeing how this is a better looking 911 than the 997.
01-06-2010, 11:39 AM
#65
Rennlist Member
Stock front look of 996 simply requires complete re-haul and bumper replacement. 997 stock is a bit better.
My vote for ideal 911 car would be exterior from 993 with complete interior taken from 997.2. But that would probably be too difficult to build.
01-06-2010, 01:16 PM
#68
If it weren't blue it would be beautiful, hehe just kidding that is gorgeous! my business partner has an 07 white GT3, it is sexy as hell! I am a car ****, I love most all Porsche's & after reading all these posts it's obvious everyone has an opinion on what they feel is a better Porsche. When I bought mine the salesman asked me what my plans are for this car & I told him it's not an investment so my plans are to drive it & drive it & then drive it somemore & enjoy it.
01-06-2010, 01:33 PM
#69
Rennlist Member
997 C2S beats 'em both by a mile in my eyes and for pure aesthetics I'd rather have a 964 widebody coupe over anything modern.
01-06-2010, 03:07 PM
#70
YES!
Actually in a way I got my car's depreciation for "free". Let me explain.
In 2006 I was going to either invest the $100k in stocks or buy this car. I did NOT have the foresight to see the market fall. With EITHER option I would have lost about 50% of the value of my asset. So in a way, my opportunity cost in buying the car relative to my other option with that money (investing in stocks) was zero, because either way it would have fallen in half. People who buy a new Porsche when the market goes up over a few years are the ones who are losing out - both the car's depreciation PLUS the loss of those earnings they would have received in the market. Their cost of ownership is substantially higher when you factor in the opportunity cost.
My situation from 1st year through 4th - Porsche $100k-->$50k vs. Stocks $100k-->$50k. (difference between $50k and $50k is 0)
Assuming stock market average annual return of around 9-10%:
Buyers in a bull market 1st through 4th - Porsche $100k-->$50k vs. Stocks $100k-->$140k (difference between $50k and $140k is $90k!!!)
Actually in a way I got my car's depreciation for "free". Let me explain.
In 2006 I was going to either invest the $100k in stocks or buy this car. I did NOT have the foresight to see the market fall. With EITHER option I would have lost about 50% of the value of my asset. So in a way, my opportunity cost in buying the car relative to my other option with that money (investing in stocks) was zero, because either way it would have fallen in half. People who buy a new Porsche when the market goes up over a few years are the ones who are losing out - both the car's depreciation PLUS the loss of those earnings they would have received in the market. Their cost of ownership is substantially higher when you factor in the opportunity cost.
My situation from 1st year through 4th - Porsche $100k-->$50k vs. Stocks $100k-->$50k. (difference between $50k and $50k is 0)
Assuming stock market average annual return of around 9-10%:
Buyers in a bull market 1st through 4th - Porsche $100k-->$50k vs. Stocks $100k-->$140k (difference between $50k and $140k is $90k!!!)
I'm no analyst, but wouldn't the stocks have a chance of rebounding over time, where the 997 will not?
01-06-2010, 03:30 PM
#71
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definitely not as bad s 996.
the body style of the 997 corrects the 996 weak points therefore has a longer shelf life.
the 997 is actually a good looking car like the 993. it will be in demand for a long time.
01-06-2010, 03:49 PM
#72
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I had some friends over. Guy has a 997.1 C4S. They came to the garage to see my C4S. The guys wife says. Wow that one looks nicer then yours its so sporty and sleek. Is that the new one?
Needless to say they both didn't know much about 911's but you get the point. Also not the only time that someone who doesn't know Porsche's has said that.
Needless to say they both didn't know much about 911's but you get the point. Also not the only time that someone who doesn't know Porsche's has said that.
My 2004 40th interior is pretty good - not sure why people dont like them. It has full leather, bose, electric seats and after close to 6 years 28000 miles - looks great (has worn very well).
All of these cars will depreciate quite hard. Got my 2009 for close to $20K off sticker. Can buy a 2005 C2S for $40K or so. Thats a great buy BTW.
01-06-2010, 08:26 PM
#74
Rennlist Member
Of course, 2010 and beyond if the money is in stocks then probably that will be better going forward. But it doesn't change the fact that what I did with $100k in 2006 would have lost 50% of it's value, no matter which of the two options I had chosen.
01-07-2010, 01:56 PM
#75
I am amused by 997.1 owners talking about how the 997's had fewer engine problems than the 996s. The M96 engines and the M97 engines are basically identical, same IMS, same open deck design. there are many IMS failures in the 997's, you see them/read about them all the time. Yes Porsche made some changes to the IMS in 2006, but it was still the sealed bearing.
The release of the 997.2, with the new engine, no IMS, no open deck, etc. will have a big impact on the 997.1's. And it is still to be seen what new problems come up with these engines. But if they follow suit with other Porsches (and other cars too) there will be issues.
Your kidding yourselfs if you think that the 997's won't depreciate just as much as the 996's. My 2000 996 has lost 75% to 80% of its value/cost. 5 year old 997's have already lost 50%+ of their value, and brand new ones are being sold for 20% below sticker.
Buy the cars to drive them and because you love them, and if you are smart you will buy a used one that has already taken a big hit. But I would wait for a 997.2, in a year or so they will be 50%-60% of sticker.
The release of the 997.2, with the new engine, no IMS, no open deck, etc. will have a big impact on the 997.1's. And it is still to be seen what new problems come up with these engines. But if they follow suit with other Porsches (and other cars too) there will be issues.
Your kidding yourselfs if you think that the 997's won't depreciate just as much as the 996's. My 2000 996 has lost 75% to 80% of its value/cost. 5 year old 997's have already lost 50%+ of their value, and brand new ones are being sold for 20% below sticker.
Buy the cars to drive them and because you love them, and if you are smart you will buy a used one that has already taken a big hit. But I would wait for a 997.2, in a year or so they will be 50%-60% of sticker.
It's funny how we obsess over this topic so much. Currently on the 996 board we have a similar thread pontificating on whether our values will rebound.