useridchallenged

I did an aggressive 1-2 shift (getting onto the freeway) and I felt something strange at the clutch. From that point on, the clutch position has engaged much higher than before.

I took it into my dealer to have it checked out, and they couldn't find anything wrong, but did agree that the clutch position was high. No slippage. They said the cables were okay, and the hydraulic pressure was good. In April I had the clutch fork and clutch slave cylinder replaced.

The dealer said that my clutch might be nearing end of life, but no one can explain to me why the clutch height would have changed so dramatically after one shift.

Any ideas?

Edgy01

Miles on the car? I'm surprised you had the fork and slave replaced already.

useridchallenged

Fork, slave (and entire engine, long story) replaced at 68k miles. 74k miles now.

JW911

Money shift?

useridchallenged

JW911 - search for "oil scavenging pump failure" in this 997 forum. About 112 posts tell the story. I'm not clever enough to know how to embed a direct link to the thread into a reply.

MUSSBERGER

At those miles I would have taken a hard look at the clutch while it was all apart.

useridchallenged

I definitely made sure there was plenty of life in the clutch before putting the whole thing back together. It's 7 hours of labor just to examine the clutch.

useridchallenged

Just posting a follow-up: what failed was the pressure plate (the springs).

Clutch plate was still fine, as were the fork and slave. I had the pressure plate, clutch plate and release bearing replaced, and all feels right with the world again. Dual-mass flywheel was undamaged even though the clutch plate was starting to slip.

It seemed strange to me that after just one hard shift that the clutch pedal would suddenly feel so different. I'm used to gradual wear of the clutch and subtle changes in how the clutch engages. So before just going ahead and replacing the clutch, I decided to have multiple dealers and mechanics test drive and opine on the possible problem. With my busy schedule, it took me almost 4 months to get around to visit dealers.

Most of the dealers and the service mechanics that I spoke with and who drove the car all pointed to the clutch plate as the most likely problem, even after I described the events that led up to the change. One dealer said the clutch was not slipping after a test drive, even after I asked "are you sure?".

It was only the team of Gunther and Rick at Fletcher-Jones in Fremont that suggested it was the pressure plate springs that failed and not the clutch based on driving the car and on my description of events. Even before driving the car or telling Rick any details - he just sat in the car and operated the clutch, engine off - Rick zeroed in on the pressure plate. After telling Rick my story, it was only Rick's explanation that made sense among the many I was told (apparently he's seen this before). No substitute for experience. I can't tell you how well Rick can diagnose other problems, but he certainly nailed this one.

The degrees of competency across Porsche dealers here in the SF Bay Area is quite wide when it comes to the 997.1. I would have expected more uniformity in their training and hiring. Especially now that the 997.1 has been in the field for over 5 years.

I'm wondering if Porsche's broadening of their product range has made it more difficult for Porsche service mechanics to really know these cars well for anything more than routine maintenance.

Anyone else ever experience a failed pressure plate?

ADias

Gunter and his team at Porsche of Fremont know their stuff.

mkaraoglan

Similar thing happened to me the other day. just got a call from independednt:

dealer kept telling me "clutch was probably at its end of life" "we've see clutches gone after 30k".. how are people driving heir cars!

the odd part was that the clutch didn't feel like a normal slipping clutch.

So here's what they found:

-My clutch was fine
-my flywhell was fine.
-The pressure plate was broken
-The slave cylinder was also busted
They're replacing clutch at this point since they're in there

total about $2100


So here's my question: can i contact pcna and have this covered under my CPO since it's really not a wear and tear item? any chance i will ever get any of my money back? IS PCNA just going to claim normalwear and tear?


marc

997, esq

Don't know if they will cover if you have it fixed at an indy. In any case, you will be in a fight with them over whether it is wear and tear. Can't hurt to try to get reimbursed, however.

useridchallenged

I feel the pressure plate should not fail from a hard shift. Clutches wear. Pressure plates do not - apparently they just fail. I think there's a strong case for the pressure plate to be a warranty repair. Unfortunately, as "997, esq" noted, warranty repair has to be done by the dealer, so you may very well be out of luck. Aside from tires, all my repairs and maintenance are done by the dealer while the car is under warranty for this very reason.

mkaraoglan - I'm curious, do you tend to shift a lot (ie. downshift to compression brake the car, regularly shift to optimize engine revs, downshift to pass, etc.)?

I tend to change gears often. I believe now that I probably fatigued the pressure plate springs from all that shifting, and when I did a quick/hard shift, it caused a failure of the pressure plate. With a performance car like the Porsche, frequent shifting is "normal driving" in my mind. The pressure plate really should not fail before the clutch. Given that there was plenty of life left in my clutch at 74k miles, it shows that my shifting and driving was hardly abusive. So again, I'd argue that a pressure plate failure is not normal and should be covered by warranty.

I replaced with a factory pressure plate. I didn't feel a need for more pressure on the clutch as you might have with a racing pressure plate/clutch, but I'm now wondering if some of the third-party pressure plates have more durable springs?

drbooba1

It is the self adjusting component of the pressure plate that failed. This was a good idea but will not tolerate quick shifts either up or down. The fulcrum under the pressure ring (the portion that contacts the disc) ratchets up or ramps up and changes the engagement by moving the diaphram out just like it is supposed to do when the disc wears changing the peadal position and causing undue wear on the disc by running the diaphram into the TO bearing.

regards

useridchallenged

drbooba1, are you saying that part of the fulcrum/adjustment mechanism failed (and requires the entire pressure plate to be replaced)?

If the pressure plate assembly won't tolerate quick shifts up or down, that seems like a faulty design for a sports car, no? Are third-party pressure plates less susceptible to this failure?

Does anyone have a pic or schematic of the pressure plate - it would be interesting to see exactly what failed and how. I didn't ask for the failed pressure plate - kinda wished I had now. Next time I'm at my dealer for service, I'll quiz the tech for more details.

To the question from "997 esq", this still seems to be a failure that would be covered under warranty, as opposed to wear and tear.

rvklein

My pressure plated failed two weeks ago at 31k miles. It was covered under warranty. It must be common with the 997