Wondering if: 911=Miata/335i ?
12-13-2009, 12:18 PM
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Wondering if: 911=Miata/335i ?
Hi everyone, great forum. Newbie here.
I am hoping to buy a new base 911 in the next year or two. I have owned a Miata for many years, and up until this past summer have owned a 335i sport coupe for two years (traded it in on a 328i for wife, and hopefully a 911 for myself). My question: is a 911 a combination of, a Miata with better handling and a 335i with more power? I do not track my cars but I do like to drive aggressively (within the law of course).
I hope I am not out of line comparing a Miata and a 3 series to a Porsche.
Alex
I am hoping to buy a new base 911 in the next year or two. I have owned a Miata for many years, and up until this past summer have owned a 335i sport coupe for two years (traded it in on a 328i for wife, and hopefully a 911 for myself). My question: is a 911 a combination of, a Miata with better handling and a 335i with more power? I do not track my cars but I do like to drive aggressively (within the law of course).
I hope I am not out of line comparing a Miata and a 3 series to a Porsche.Alex
12-13-2009, 01:13 PM
#3
The 911 combines the virtues of those two cars extremely well. But it offers far more than either of them.
No, it's not as light and nimble as the Mazda, nor a quiet and refined as the Beemer, but every time you sit in the 911 you'll know you did the right thing.
No, it's not as light and nimble as the Mazda, nor a quiet and refined as the Beemer, but every time you sit in the 911 you'll know you did the right thing.
12-13-2009, 01:58 PM
#4
Nordschleife Master
12-13-2009, 02:00 PM
#5
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I can't speak to the 3 series, the only BMW I've owned was a Z3 M Roadster which was about as un-miata-like and un-porsche-like as I can imagine.
I think you're right on target with the Miata comparison. The 911 and the Miata do share the same sort of gestalt. Both cars were designed by passionate enthuaists (Bob Hall and Ferdinand Porsche) for passionate enthusiasts.
Both the Miata and the 911 embody a subtle appeal which isn't immediately apparent and which is overlooked by many people who focus too much on just one area. I'd say that both cars succeed on the notion of proper balance of performance and handling and reliability which is unmatched by other cars in their class.
While the handling of a heavy, high horsepower, rear engine 911 is nothing like the handling of the nimble, lightweight Miata -- there is a similarity there. Both cars are renowned for the feedback they provide the driver. At least for me, both are thrilling in the same sort of way where you feel at one with the car.
The 911 and the Miata are probably the two most-raced cars currently in production today by a wide margin. That's no accident.
And, lastly, the Porsche community is just about as crazy and enthusiastic as the Miata community. Of all the car forums I lurk on, the Porsche guys and the miata.net guys are the best by a long shot.
I had a '94 Miata for seven years and loved the car like no other. I got my first 911 in 2007 and as far as I'm concerned it's 911s from here on out for me. They're that good. If I can't afford to keep buying 911s, it's back to Miatas. Seriously.
I think you're right on target with the Miata comparison. The 911 and the Miata do share the same sort of gestalt. Both cars were designed by passionate enthuaists (Bob Hall and Ferdinand Porsche) for passionate enthusiasts.
Both the Miata and the 911 embody a subtle appeal which isn't immediately apparent and which is overlooked by many people who focus too much on just one area. I'd say that both cars succeed on the notion of proper balance of performance and handling and reliability which is unmatched by other cars in their class.
While the handling of a heavy, high horsepower, rear engine 911 is nothing like the handling of the nimble, lightweight Miata -- there is a similarity there. Both cars are renowned for the feedback they provide the driver. At least for me, both are thrilling in the same sort of way where you feel at one with the car.
The 911 and the Miata are probably the two most-raced cars currently in production today by a wide margin. That's no accident.
And, lastly, the Porsche community is just about as crazy and enthusiastic as the Miata community. Of all the car forums I lurk on, the Porsche guys and the miata.net guys are the best by a long shot.
I had a '94 Miata for seven years and loved the car like no other. I got my first 911 in 2007 and as far as I'm concerned it's 911s from here on out for me. They're that good. If I can't afford to keep buying 911s, it's back to Miatas. Seriously.
12-13-2009, 02:12 PM
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Interesting question.
I don't know that I'd characterize the 997's handling as "better" than a Miata's. It's different. A 997 can carry a lot of speed through a sweeper, but I find it's not as capable through quick transitions, just because of the awkward weight balance. The Miata does feel lighter and more tossable than the 997, but the 997 makes the BMWs I've driven feel heavy (2002 M Roadster, 2003 M3, 2008 M3 Convertible).
What the 997 offers, IMO, is a great "best of both worlds" with minimal compromises. Nugget's C2S Cab had an in incredible ability to feel like a comfortable, even lazy, GT car as we cruised down the freeway. But when the car hit the track, that "lazy" was gone. The car became sharp, crisp, responsive, communicative... His Cab did have PASM, and the changes to damper stiffness between the normal and the sport setting helped with this transformation. The BMWs just aren't as crisp on the track, and the Miata is far from a GT car. It sounds like this "best of both worlds" is what you're looking for, and I think a 911 can satisfy that quite effectively.
I don't know that I'd characterize the 997's handling as "better" than a Miata's. It's different. A 997 can carry a lot of speed through a sweeper, but I find it's not as capable through quick transitions, just because of the awkward weight balance. The Miata does feel lighter and more tossable than the 997, but the 997 makes the BMWs I've driven feel heavy (2002 M Roadster, 2003 M3, 2008 M3 Convertible).
What the 997 offers, IMO, is a great "best of both worlds" with minimal compromises. Nugget's C2S Cab had an in incredible ability to feel like a comfortable, even lazy, GT car as we cruised down the freeway. But when the car hit the track, that "lazy" was gone. The car became sharp, crisp, responsive, communicative... His Cab did have PASM, and the changes to damper stiffness between the normal and the sport setting helped with this transformation. The BMWs just aren't as crisp on the track, and the Miata is far from a GT car. It sounds like this "best of both worlds" is what you're looking for, and I think a 911 can satisfy that quite effectively.
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12-13-2009, 03:08 PM
#8
911 = Miata/335i - Umm, No.
911 > Miata/335i - Maybe, but it depends on you.
In my own case, I've owned many BMWs over the past 20 years, mostly sedans, but also older model M3 coupes. I've also owned a first gen Miata and a second gen Mazdaspeed Turbo Miata. But I don't care for the current third gen MX-5.
For me, owning my Carrera S is better than having both a Miata & 335i. In terms of practicality, it loses to the 335i, but is much more fun to drive and looks way better. OTOH, the Miata is a hard car to forget. It's one of those special cars that one has to own to really appreciate. The 911 can not match it in terms of nimbleness, agility, and the feeling of lightness. In those respects, the Miata is more fun to drive - IMHO. Plus if you get a 911 coupe, you will miss the drop top of the Miata.
But given a choice, I'd still take a 911 over owning both a Miata & 335i.
911 > Miata/335i - Maybe, but it depends on you.
In my own case, I've owned many BMWs over the past 20 years, mostly sedans, but also older model M3 coupes. I've also owned a first gen Miata and a second gen Mazdaspeed Turbo Miata. But I don't care for the current third gen MX-5.
For me, owning my Carrera S is better than having both a Miata & 335i. In terms of practicality, it loses to the 335i, but is much more fun to drive and looks way better. OTOH, the Miata is a hard car to forget. It's one of those special cars that one has to own to really appreciate. The 911 can not match it in terms of nimbleness, agility, and the feeling of lightness. In those respects, the Miata is more fun to drive - IMHO. Plus if you get a 911 coupe, you will miss the drop top of the Miata.
But given a choice, I'd still take a 911 over owning both a Miata & 335i.
12-13-2009, 04:21 PM
#9
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Thanks for your positive responses, they seem to reinforce what I been thinking. Your knowledge gives me a better understanding of what the legend is all about. Nugget I know where you are coming from when you use miata.net members and passion in the same sentence, been reading posts there for many years and have the same passion which has lasted since buying the Miata in 93.
That reminds me of a TV program I watched a few year ago, where they interviewed car journalist and car enthusiasts to see what the best overall sports car was. I think it was sports car, anyhow if I recall correctly the Miata came in #2 and I think the 911 came in # 1. I cannot remember the exact words but I can remember Steve McQueen’s son raving about the 911 and not really acknowledging what a great little sports car the Miata is. I remember being very upset at how he responded to the questions about the Miata but proud that he loved the 911.
I cherish this passion I have for the Miata, I feel it is a little part of what makes me human. I have had two Bimmers and will probably have one for the rest of my life, to drive year round. Here in eastern Canada we get harsh winters. However, from the day I was able to coordinate my fine motor skills to push a little Hotwheels 911 across the floor I have been dreaming about a 911, and until recently that is what it was, a dream, however I am now at a stage in my life where i can afford one. Even though I have never even sat in a Porsche (I live on an island in eastern Canada where the nearest dealership is 600 miles and a 8 hour ferry ride away. I like to think of it as similar in some ways to The Isle of Man). I know I well love it.
MSpeedster I am going to keep the Miata (myself/son) 328i (wife) 911(MeMeMe)
Now our dream (my 10 year old son and I) is to drive the Miata and the 911 in our local annual car festival Targa Newfoundland in a few years.
Thanks
Alex
That reminds me of a TV program I watched a few year ago, where they interviewed car journalist and car enthusiasts to see what the best overall sports car was. I think it was sports car, anyhow if I recall correctly the Miata came in #2 and I think the 911 came in # 1. I cannot remember the exact words but I can remember Steve McQueen’s son raving about the 911 and not really acknowledging what a great little sports car the Miata is. I remember being very upset at how he responded to the questions about the Miata but proud that he loved the 911.
I cherish this passion I have for the Miata, I feel it is a little part of what makes me human. I have had two Bimmers and will probably have one for the rest of my life, to drive year round. Here in eastern Canada we get harsh winters. However, from the day I was able to coordinate my fine motor skills to push a little Hotwheels 911 across the floor I have been dreaming about a 911, and until recently that is what it was, a dream, however I am now at a stage in my life where i can afford one. Even though I have never even sat in a Porsche (I live on an island in eastern Canada where the nearest dealership is 600 miles and a 8 hour ferry ride away. I like to think of it as similar in some ways to The Isle of Man). I know I well love it.
MSpeedster I am going to keep the Miata (myself/son) 328i (wife) 911(MeMeMe)
Now our dream (my 10 year old son and I) is to drive the Miata and the 911 in our local annual car festival Targa Newfoundland in a few years.
Thanks
Alex
12-13-2009, 04:35 PM
#10
Team Owner
The Miata and 911 are both trying to achieve similar things in different ways and are both very respectable vehicles. The 335i is the odd man out here...it achieves something that isn't in the same ballpark as the other two cars.
All of these cars have their place, and I'd probably agree that the 911 is a good substitute for a Miata and 335i so far as practicality and fun goes, but not a very good "straight" substitute for either specific vehicle.
All of these cars have their place, and I'd probably agree that the 911 is a good substitute for a Miata and 335i so far as practicality and fun goes, but not a very good "straight" substitute for either specific vehicle.
12-13-2009, 04:36 PM
#11
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12-13-2009, 05:31 PM
#12
Drifting
Hi everyone, great forum. Newbie here.
I am hoping to buy a new base 911 in the next year or two. I have owned a Miata for many years, and up until this past summer have owned a 335i sport coupe for two years (traded it in on a 328i for wife, and hopefully a 911 for myself). My question: is a 911 a combination of, a Miata with better handling and a 335i with more power? I do not track my cars but I do like to drive aggressively (within the law of course). I hope I am not out of line comparing a Miata and a 3 series to a Porsche.
Alex
I am hoping to buy a new base 911 in the next year or two. I have owned a Miata for many years, and up until this past summer have owned a 335i sport coupe for two years (traded it in on a 328i for wife, and hopefully a 911 for myself). My question: is a 911 a combination of, a Miata with better handling and a 335i with more power? I do not track my cars but I do like to drive aggressively (within the law of course).
I hope I am not out of line comparing a Miata and a 3 series to a Porsche.Alex
12-14-2009, 03:32 PM
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Ok I own a 335i Cabriolet, a Miata HT and a 996 as well as several Early 911s including eSSes
No a 335 is a sweet car but a cruising car and I live in Germany
The Mx-5 miata is a great back road tosser with no power
The Early S or a Boxster which feels like a Porsche If you want a ragtop
a 335 is ok but it is not quick reacting like the Porsche
Substituting is ok, the convertible is really practical but its like giving up
the best sex of your life for a home in the burbs and a a good mother for
your kids, its a trade-off
No a 335 is a sweet car but a cruising car and I live in Germany
The Mx-5 miata is a great back road tosser with no power
The Early S or a Boxster which feels like a Porsche If you want a ragtop
a 335 is ok but it is not quick reacting like the Porsche
Substituting is ok, the convertible is really practical but its like giving up
the best sex of your life for a home in the burbs and a a good mother for
your kids, its a trade-off
12-14-2009, 04:32 PM
#15
Rennlist Member
Hi everyone, great forum. Newbie here.
I am hoping to buy a new base 911 in the next year or two. I have owned a Miata for many years, and up until this past summer have owned a 335i sport coupe for two years (traded it in on a 328i for wife, and hopefully a 911 for myself). My question: is a 911 a combination of, a Miata with better handling and a 335i with more power? I do not track my cars but I do like to drive aggressively (within the law of course). I hope I am not out of line comparing a Miata and a 3 series to a Porsche.
Alex
I am hoping to buy a new base 911 in the next year or two. I have owned a Miata for many years, and up until this past summer have owned a 335i sport coupe for two years (traded it in on a 328i for wife, and hopefully a 911 for myself). My question: is a 911 a combination of, a Miata with better handling and a 335i with more power? I do not track my cars but I do like to drive aggressively (within the law of course).
I hope I am not out of line comparing a Miata and a 3 series to a Porsche.Alex
Ok, here how it is... I am very new to 997 (since August), came from a B5 S4 with LOTS of power, and very nicely modded with the best suspension and brakes you could buy for that car.
In the process of upgrade, I looked into 335i, RS4, Cayman S, and even M3. Actually never even considered 911... then I test drove one while checking out Cayman S... LITERALLY after I started the engine, I KNEW THIS IS IT!
The feel, handling, looks, ride, the power band, drivers position, gearing is JUST RIGHT. It's an incredibly well engineered car, it's NOT the fastest thing out there, not the BEST handling, NOT the best looks, NOT the best ride... HOWEVER, it IS THE BEST OF ALL PUT TOGETHER. You are NEVER lacking in any area... enough power, enough grip, comfortable enough ride, great looks, great feel, great reliability, etc...
Cayman/Boxster is more like Miata with 335 power... if that's what you're looking for. It was a great zippy car, just wasn't 911...