stevepow

Agreed - and look at the disparity between basically the same car: Ford, Mercury, Lincoln. Or Honda, Acura. Or that BMW is below average. It seems more a survey of buyer expectation - more money=higher expectation=more disappointment.

I've had loads of BMWs and spending time at the service department over the years tells me that a lot of owners are prima donnas with ridiculous expectations. I've seen some very rude and insensitive people at BMW service.

The Lexus/Toyota is an odd case - but Toyota treats their customers (potential or otherwise) as cattle, whereas Lexus treats you like you are buying a Porsche. At least that's my experience with Toyota/Lexus here.

That survey seems to reflect a lot more about customer expectation and treatment than anything else.

Speaking of which - I just got my JD Power survey for my 911. I'll say good things because the dealership was great and the car has been perfect for 4 months and 2.4K miles. It has a long road ahead though.

docjohnM

BTW, I do drive a 997.2S and tears come out of my eyes looking at the interior.(Not tears of joy) My wife actually laughed when she first got into it. OUCH! The first thing she touched was the thin, flimsy center console and it made that noise that only can be found in 1980's VW interiors. She looked at the "coin holder" and asked if she could put a coin in it. I told her not too, because it was a sports car and doesn't need fancy coin-holders.(I was scared it would snap..) Anyway, she replied, "then why did they bother with this nasty thing?". OUCH X2
Then she wanted to know why the door panels were made of "rubber". I corrected her and said that there was the lid for the door bin, which might be leather or something close to it. Naturally, her $30K car has stitched alcantara and a slab of aluminum on it's doors. Anyway, I could not drink enough porsche Kool-Aid to see it otherwise. None of this cost cutting is relevant to the car being a "sports car". It is however, relevant to "profit Margin"!
I admit that I am kicking myself for not getting the full-leather option, which would have shut my mouth in a nano second. But, why should you have to pay for things that are easy and cheap to provide. How much could it cost porsche to put a few square inches of something other than plastic in the interior???
I am happy however that they put mucho dollars in things that you may not see everyday, like the nice shift linkage, huge brakes, or the forged aluminum suspension bits. But again, most cars have these things nowadays too, and they can also give you the tactile pleasures of an opulent interior! (Audi R8, CTS, 370Z or M3??) I do enjoy my 997S and overall am happy with the car and it's dynamics, but the stellar mechanical engineering makes the other faults seem all that much more obvious and inexcusable.

rodsky

Thats why Porsche gives you the option to either pay for it (if its something you want) or not (if you dont want it). I have a standard leather basic interior and I think its great. My wife happens to like it to You can look at it either way - if Porsche made Nav standard and included it in the price - 50% of the people would bitch coz they dont want it. Or Sport Chrono etc. I'm happy to pay $4K for PDK, whatever it was for SC Plus, SPASM, UAI etc. But I am not willing to pay $4K for some leather bits. If I were buying second hand and it came with it - fine.

I buy Porsches based on the driving thrill they give me. The interior is way beyond acceptable for me. In fact I still have my 40th anni 996. And I am OK with that interior too. However, that car makes it truly hard to be a DD. You cant be on a conf call (too loud) and its always stiff (the suspension). The 997 is the best of both worlds and i drive it all the time now.

ricster

Its all about what you want...performance...which is built standard into every 911 and if you want the trim do-dads you can pay extra for them and they are very good quality. Its like Morton steak house..do you want a potato with that steak sir?

rodsky

+1. Agreed.

stevepow

What car is that she drives? Just curious as I have not seen Alcantara used on any $30K cars.

yemenmocha

All of this talk about how the interior doesn't matter so much and it's the performance that counts.... well let's just say you're selling me on a Z06 next year, or perhaps the upcoming Z07.

brendo

FWIW, the data are statistically significant. i agree it's not THE measurement for quality but it is a valid input. the "type" of people that respond all get the same questions at the same time, etc. of course, what their expectations are is key to the outcome.

from my pov, this survey is an indicator of the "quality" as it's perceived by the buyer and expectations set and how that matches with what he/she receives

actually, that's why i didn't post it in an earlier discussion. i was hoping you'd miss this


from my POV, the quality of the interior is "fine" on my 997. i don't have plush leather, not full leather (i'll get that next time tho). I AM happy with the quality of the vehicle despite having 3 rattles fixed under warranty. maybe i'm an apologist. it was easy to fix and they're fixed and didn't come back.

regarding the interior expectations above, i refer back to what some people expect regarding the $$ and the value. expecting aston martin details (have you seen their crystal key???) with porsche's historical tendency to ignore all that is not performace driven is incongruous to me.

Mspeedster

In a prior post, I think he mentioned the Nissan 370Z. I looked at those before buying my 911. If you opt for the leather interior, the new Z's do have a pseudo-suede like material used on the door inserts. I don't believe Nissan refers to it as Alcantara though, but the look and feel is similar.

Nissan's target for the 370Z was the Cayman S. Some say they came pretty close, but fell a little short. But at half the price, it's a great car for the money. I like the Z's looks over the GT-R, but prefer the 997's styling over either of Nissan's offerings.

tincanman99

People are saying the Cayenne's interior isnt up to snuff because its built in the same factor as VW/Audi. From my reading VW builds the body with doors and they are shipped to a Porsche plant for final assembly by Porsche. VW has nothing to do with it at that point. That being said, I have read many people justifying the cost of the Cayenne versus the Toureg/Q7 as all the engineering Porsche supposedly did. Yeah, sure. They slapped their name on a VW product, added some horsepower and tuned the suspension. That doesnt justify doubling the price. What does justify doubling the price is the Porsche name.

The cheap interior is a direct result of Wiedeking and company. Porsche did not get to be the most profitable car company on the planet by spending $. They realized quite some time ago people will pay for it just because it says Porsche on it. I dont believe any of the current models are as well made as the 993/964. They are ok but for the price they could be better.

As the 911/Boxster/Cayman share lots of interior bits the could have easily made them nicer. Frankly a VW GTI or an Audi A3 has a nicer interior than these cars. They have deviated stitching with no additional cost, real aluminum on the dash and the doors and a great steering wheel with a flat bottom with real paddles, sports seats, the whole deal. NO ADDITIONAL COST.

Porsche on the other hand bleeds you and than some. PDK - $4k, which is ridiculous, 3K for rims, on and on.

Quadcammer

You two may want to actually experience an american made car with a price tag somewhere close to your porsche.

While the material quality is still not as good, assembly quality is pretty damn good.

docjohnM

Just a historical note---"alcantara" is a cheap polyester faux suede that they started putting out about 10 years ago and tried to make it "chic". It probably costs 2 or 3 bucks for a sq. Yard! It is nothing special.....

The car I described was a New Nissan 370Z. They are being sold for $30K. (I also noted that the new Maxima has a nice interior too.)
They do have a coarse engine, but the interior is an amazing example of what a company can do if they give a damn. The stitched items on the dash and console are vinyl, but somehow look very rich. I wonder why Nissan could stitch the center console and nav screen cover, yet why didn't porsche even give it a try?? I would accept Vinyl!!! Just make it look nice. Oddly enough, the new panamera has all of the nice interior finishing touches that the 997 lacks...and at the same price I paid for my 997.
Also, with GM starting to care about interiors, they are putting together some Gems. Maybe now that Audi is on the same board as Porsche, we will see some nice changes. Just hope they don't pollute the 'Perfect' aspects of the 911!!!

Mspeedster

I've got the full leather on mine and I'm very happy with the interior. I do agree Porsche could do a better job with some of the base materials. In one article comparing the Z to the Cayman, the verdict was the Z's interior won hands down. But in terms of driving dynamics, that's where Cayman couldn't be matched.

Porsche has always been about building sports cars first and foremost.

Nugget

I'm uninterested in full leather in my Porsche and I'm glad it's optional. The interior is plenty fine by my standards. If I ever buy a Panamera then I'll want it to look like a saddle inside, but for my 911 I just want tight seats and a notchy shifter.

stevepow

I know what Alcatara is - you should too - look at the roofliner in your 997. I've had a few cars with it (M5, 911) and researched it to find out why it was so expensive. The product has been available over 30 years and costs somewhere between $50-100 linear yard.

That you say the fabric is a cheap faux suede makes me doubt it is actually Alcantara.

That pretty much confirms it - anyone using Alcantara in their product is not going to call it "synthetic suede" (even though that is what it is). The brand name has way too much value, perceived or otherwise, for that. E.g., as what Porsche specs "Roofliner in Alcantara". Same for BMW and any other car I have seen use it - even the Subaru WRX Sti:"Black Alcantara/Carbon Black Leather upholstery" - which might sell for low $30s.

I do worry about the wear though on some of the non-vinyl/non-leather bits that have that "soft" finish paint on them (center console for example). They have not held up well for others. I can see having to get them painted or replace with leather, if available, over time.