Build Quality
#46
Three Wheelin'
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I've had loads of BMWs and spending time at the service department over the years tells me that a lot of owners are prima donnas with ridiculous expectations. I've seen some very rude and insensitive people at BMW service.
The Lexus/Toyota is an odd case - but Toyota treats their customers (potential or otherwise) as cattle, whereas Lexus treats you like you are buying a Porsche. At least that's my experience with Toyota/Lexus here.
That survey seems to reflect a lot more about customer expectation and treatment than anything else.
Speaking of which - I just got my JD Power survey for my 911. I'll say good things because the dealership was great and the car has been perfect for 4 months and 2.4K miles. It has a long road ahead though.
#47
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Then she wanted to know why the door panels were made of "rubber". I corrected her and said that there was the lid for the door bin, which might be leather or something close to it. Naturally, her $30K car has stitched alcantara and a slab of aluminum on it's doors. Anyway, I could not drink enough porsche Kool-Aid to see it otherwise. None of this cost cutting is relevant to the car being a "sports car". It is however, relevant to "profit Margin"!
I admit that I am kicking myself for not getting the full-leather option, which would have shut my mouth in a nano second. But, why should you have to pay for things that are easy and cheap to provide. How much could it cost porsche to put a few square inches of something other than plastic in the interior???
I am happy however that they put mucho dollars in things that you may not see everyday, like the nice shift linkage, huge brakes, or the forged aluminum suspension bits. But again, most cars have these things nowadays too, and they can also give you the tactile pleasures of an opulent interior! (Audi R8, CTS, 370Z or M3??) I do enjoy my 997S and overall am happy with the car and it's dynamics, but the stellar mechanical engineering makes the other faults seem all that much more obvious and inexcusable.
#48
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BTW, I do drive a 997.2S and tears come out of my eyes looking at the interior.(Not tears of joy) My wife actually laughed when she first got into it. OUCH! The first thing she touched was the thin, flimsy center console and it made that noise that only can be found in 1980's VW interiors. She looked at the "coin holder" and asked if she could put a coin in it. I told her not too, because it was a sports car and doesn't need fancy coin-holders.(I was scared it would snap..) Anyway, she replied, "then why did they bother with this nasty thing?". OUCH X2
Then she wanted to know why the door panels were made of "rubber". I corrected her and said that there was the lid for the door bin, which might be leather or something close to it. Naturally, her $30K car has stitched alcantara and a slab of aluminum on it's doors. Anyway, I could not drink enough porsche Kool-Aid to see it otherwise. None of this cost cutting is relevant to the car being a "sports car". It is however, relevant to "profit Margin"!
I admit that I am kicking myself for not getting the full-leather option, which would have shut my mouth in a nano second. But, why should you have to pay for things that are easy and cheap to provide. How much could it cost porsche to put a few square inches of something other than plastic in the interior???
I am happy however that they put mucho dollars in things that you may not see everyday, like the nice shift linkage, huge brakes, or the forged aluminum suspension bits. But again, most cars have these things nowadays too, and they can also give you the tactile pleasures of an opulent interior! (Audi R8, CTS, 370Z or M3??) I do enjoy my 997S and overall am happy with the car and it's dynamics, but the stellar mechanical engineering makes the other faults seem all that much more obvious and inexcusable.
Then she wanted to know why the door panels were made of "rubber". I corrected her and said that there was the lid for the door bin, which might be leather or something close to it. Naturally, her $30K car has stitched alcantara and a slab of aluminum on it's doors. Anyway, I could not drink enough porsche Kool-Aid to see it otherwise. None of this cost cutting is relevant to the car being a "sports car". It is however, relevant to "profit Margin"!
I admit that I am kicking myself for not getting the full-leather option, which would have shut my mouth in a nano second. But, why should you have to pay for things that are easy and cheap to provide. How much could it cost porsche to put a few square inches of something other than plastic in the interior???
I am happy however that they put mucho dollars in things that you may not see everyday, like the nice shift linkage, huge brakes, or the forged aluminum suspension bits. But again, most cars have these things nowadays too, and they can also give you the tactile pleasures of an opulent interior! (Audi R8, CTS, 370Z or M3??) I do enjoy my 997S and overall am happy with the car and it's dynamics, but the stellar mechanical engineering makes the other faults seem all that much more obvious and inexcusable.
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I buy Porsches based on the driving thrill they give me. The interior is way beyond acceptable for me. In fact I still have my 40th anni 996. And I am OK with that interior too. However, that car makes it truly hard to be a DD. You cant be on a conf call (too loud) and its always stiff (the suspension). The 997 is the best of both worlds and i drive it all the time now.
#49
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Its all about what you want...performance...which is built standard into every 911 and if you want the trim do-dads you can pay extra for them and they are very good quality. Its like Morton steak house..do you want a potato with that steak sir?
#51
Three Wheelin'
#52
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All of this talk about how the interior doesn't matter so much and it's the performance that counts.... well let's just say you're selling me on a Z06 next year, or perhaps the upcoming Z07.
#53
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And I'd have to say those rankings are not worth the paper they are written on. Really.
Those JD Power surveys always come to the purchaser immediately after a purchase (based on my two surveys) before I've even been able to drive the car for a month or two to see IF there are any initial quality problems. The only thing those surveys may catch is obviously broken things that fall into the drivers lap on delivery. And if they were there, I'd never have have accepted the car for delivery.
Additionally, how do we know anything about the owners that filled out the surveys? Certainly, most folks feel great about the car they bought. Other folks wouldn't notice or care about a broken component until if literally falls off and causes the car to break down, so whether one is getting a truly statistically meaningful analysis of initial quality is questionable.
Those JD Power surveys always come to the purchaser immediately after a purchase (based on my two surveys) before I've even been able to drive the car for a month or two to see IF there are any initial quality problems. The only thing those surveys may catch is obviously broken things that fall into the drivers lap on delivery. And if they were there, I'd never have have accepted the car for delivery.
Additionally, how do we know anything about the owners that filled out the surveys? Certainly, most folks feel great about the car they bought. Other folks wouldn't notice or care about a broken component until if literally falls off and causes the car to break down, so whether one is getting a truly statistically meaningful analysis of initial quality is questionable.
from my pov, this survey is an indicator of the "quality" as it's perceived by the buyer and expectations set and how that matches with what he/she receives
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from my POV, the quality of the interior is "fine" on my 997. i don't have plush leather, not full leather (i'll get that next time tho). I AM happy with the quality of the vehicle despite having 3 rattles fixed under warranty. maybe i'm an apologist. it was easy to fix and they're fixed and didn't come back.
regarding the interior expectations above, i refer back to what some people expect regarding the $$ and the value. expecting aston martin details (have you seen their crystal key???) with porsche's historical tendency to ignore all that is not performace driven is incongruous to me.
#54
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Nissan's target for the 370Z was the Cayman S. Some say they came pretty close, but fell a little short. But at half the price, it's a great car for the money. I like the Z's looks over the GT-R, but prefer the 997's styling over either of Nissan's offerings.
#55
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People are saying the Cayenne's interior isnt up to snuff because its built in the same factor as VW/Audi. From my reading VW builds the body with doors and they are shipped to a Porsche plant for final assembly by Porsche. VW has nothing to do with it at that point. That being said, I have read many people justifying the cost of the Cayenne versus the Toureg/Q7 as all the engineering Porsche supposedly did. Yeah, sure. They slapped their name on a VW product, added some horsepower and tuned the suspension. That doesnt justify doubling the price. What does justify doubling the price is the Porsche name.
The cheap interior is a direct result of Wiedeking and company. Porsche did not get to be the most profitable car company on the planet by spending $. They realized quite some time ago people will pay for it just because it says Porsche on it. I dont believe any of the current models are as well made as the 993/964. They are ok but for the price they could be better.
As the 911/Boxster/Cayman share lots of interior bits the could have easily made them nicer. Frankly a VW GTI or an Audi A3 has a nicer interior than these cars. They have deviated stitching with no additional cost, real aluminum on the dash and the doors and a great steering wheel with a flat bottom with real paddles, sports seats, the whole deal. NO ADDITIONAL COST.
Porsche on the other hand bleeds you and than some. PDK - $4k, which is ridiculous, 3K for rims, on and on.
The cheap interior is a direct result of Wiedeking and company. Porsche did not get to be the most profitable car company on the planet by spending $. They realized quite some time ago people will pay for it just because it says Porsche on it. I dont believe any of the current models are as well made as the 993/964. They are ok but for the price they could be better.
As the 911/Boxster/Cayman share lots of interior bits the could have easily made them nicer. Frankly a VW GTI or an Audi A3 has a nicer interior than these cars. They have deviated stitching with no additional cost, real aluminum on the dash and the doors and a great steering wheel with a flat bottom with real paddles, sports seats, the whole deal. NO ADDITIONAL COST.
Porsche on the other hand bleeds you and than some. PDK - $4k, which is ridiculous, 3K for rims, on and on.
Last edited by tincanman99; 10-17-2009 at 06:24 PM. Reason: typo
#56
Race Director
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While the material quality is still not as good, assembly quality is pretty damn good.
#57
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The car I described was a New Nissan 370Z. They are being sold for $30K. (I also noted that the new Maxima has a nice interior too.)
They do have a coarse engine, but the interior is an amazing example of what a company can do if they give a damn. The stitched items on the dash and console are vinyl, but somehow look very rich. I wonder why Nissan could stitch the center console and nav screen cover, yet why didn't porsche even give it a try?? I would accept Vinyl!!! Just make it look nice. Oddly enough, the new panamera has all of the nice interior finishing touches that the 997 lacks...and at the same price I paid for my 997.
Also, with GM starting to care about interiors, they are putting together some Gems. Maybe now that Audi is on the same board as Porsche, we will see some nice changes. Just hope they don't pollute the 'Perfect' aspects of the 911!!!
#58
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I've got the full leather on mine and I'm very happy with the interior. I do agree Porsche could do a better job with some of the base materials. In one article comparing the Z to the Cayman, the verdict was the Z's interior won hands down. But in terms of driving dynamics, that's where Cayman couldn't be matched.
Porsche has always been about building sports cars first and foremost.
Porsche has always been about building sports cars first and foremost.
#59
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I'm uninterested in full leather in my Porsche and I'm glad it's optional. The interior is plenty fine by my standards. If I ever buy a Panamera then I'll want it to look like a saddle inside, but for my 911 I just want tight seats and a notchy shifter.
#60
Three Wheelin'
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That you say the fabric is a cheap faux suede makes me doubt it is actually Alcantara.
Originally Posted by Nissan WEB 370Z Specs
Leather-appointed sport seats with synthetic suede inserts
I do worry about the wear though on some of the non-vinyl/non-leather bits that have that "soft" finish paint on them (center console for example). They have not held up well for others. I can see having to get them painted or replace with leather, if available, over time.