PogueMoHone

Corporate mileage standards,rules and regulations will drive all decisions, for all Manufacturers.

The "Greens" are trying to take over the automotive world, and the European (Auto) OEM's are in a tizzy about product planning and development.

No one has any certainty about the outcome, but the worse the recession/depression the better for the auto enthusiast, as the European Auto Manufacturers will have more input, influence and flexibility (jobs involved) on what is ultimately built.

Ironic!

Alan Smithee

Minimally optioned with tax and license, the base car was $50k in 2002, or about the price of an M3 (which matched the 911 in terms of performance, so the Boxster did not compete in price/performance, IMO). Minimally optioned without tax and license it's a $50k car now.

Do I really think they should build a sports car in the $30s? If it is under 3k lbs, has sublime handling, decent performance, and looks great, absolutely. It would certainly be more their 'style' and 'place' than a Cayenne V6.

gt2r

I think this reporter is nuts. If you own a business, you own it to make money. VW isn't going to destroy the Porsche name. The Cayenne is a huge success and Porsche makes more money on it than VW does on the Toureg. Why would they want to get rid of the Cayenne?? I have driven the Panamera and it is the best driving sedan that I have ever driven. I have owned BMW M5's, AMG Merscedes and driven the Quatraporte,,the Panamera out handles and performs every one of them. This car is much nicer looking in person than in pictures and performs more like a sports car than a sedan. Again if they can command a premium for having the Porsche badge on it, they will sell it and make money.
VW management are not idiots. As long as Porsche is profitable--which it is--they will be allowed to build the cars that they are building now. Besides the dealers would be hurting if they were only selling sports cars. That is one of the reasons for the Cayenne and Panamera. When markets are down for sports cars, SUV still sell. This gives more cushion for the dealers in hard times and more work for the survice shop.
This isn't rocket science, just the facts..Do you think they could sell a VW branded Panamera for $120,000..They can't. Remember the Phaeton

Alan Smithee

You are, of course, entitled to your opinion. But Porsche built its reputation on building quality sports cars, and I would rather see them get back to focusing on that instead of competing with with the Range Rover or S-class. When they were independent it made sense to sell more product to their customer base, but not now.

And as I referenced above, nothing devalues a sports car brand more than a 10 second 0-60 SUV, so I don't buy that argument.

Graygoose997

I don't see how building SUV's has lowered the standards..or devalued the 911 brand.
The 997 series has been virtually bulletproof and I can't believe there exists an individual that wanted a Porsche sports car, but bought something else because of seeing an SUV on the showroom floor.

You can have your preferences and opinions, but they are not based in reality.

Dave07997S

I respectfully disagree I find the 911 one of the sexiest cars on the road especially in the 993/997 variations. The Panamera looks like a prego 911 and don't understand this car at all along the lines of the BMW X6.

Dave

Ucube

I don't buy this statement either, unless it's from a purist's viewpoint. As much as Porsche has built its reputation on quality sports cars, it has sold itself as a premium brand. While PAG may have expanded their product lines to tap into the lucrative SUV and sedan segments, they were never interested in moving down-market from a pricing standpoint. Over time, a mass-produced sports car in the $30's (no matter how good) only serves to dilute the status of the brand, which no doubt is quite important to the Porsche suits.

I, on the other hand, don't care what PAG has to sell and at what price to fund the 911 project. They can sell kitchen appliances for all I care as long as they keep giving me the 911.

BTW, my original comment wasn't my personal opinion. It was my interpretation of PAG's corporate strategy.

stubenhocker

What do you mean by "quite capable"?

RollingArt

I was invited to the "Bay Area mid engine launch" for the new 997.2 Caymen S and Boxster S with PDK. It consisted of an autocross course set up at the Shark Tank parking lot. The 997.2's were awesome on the course and a lot of fun to drive.

At the end of the day the instructors that Porsche had there for this event were giving rides in the same cars that we had been driving. Well one of the instructors roles out this Cayenne GTS and loads it with four additional passengers. He then proceeds to bite at the heels of the Caymans with the Cayman driver pedaling as fast as he can. It was a hoot and a real eye opener to the "capabilities" of the Cayenne.


Phil

Seal

Alan,

A few facts to help this discussion:

1. You stated Porsche should have built an affordable sports car in 2002 instead of building the Cayenne. FYI: when the Boxster came out in 1997, its MSRP was $39,980. Invoice was under 35k. So, as Phil already pointed out, in 1997 Porsche already did what you suggested they should have done in 2002 instead of the Cayanne: they built an affordable sports car and it is called the Boxster. You were right on one thing though, it was a tremendous succes. It saved the company from backrupcy in the late 90-ies after it got into difficulties in the early 90-ies because the 964/993 were built inefficiently and income had take a huge hit as from the late 80-ies because the DM/USD exchange rate killed US sales and Porsche had no hedging in place.

2. VW didn't do "a great job" with Bugatti. They're losing money on each car built. It is a prestige project for megalomaniac Piech who had to get it (and the Phaeton) built regardless of whether it made financial sense or not. Hardly a great job from a business point of view. Technically maybe but not businesswise. In such an environment, VW could easily force Porsche to stop building profitable cars which also happen to be best in class (Cayenne, Panamera). Let's hope it doesn't happen and the sanity will prevail going forward.

Dr_KarlB

... well as a Prius type hybrid... correct.

BUT the possible performance boost to accelleration figures or a KERS type unit could be right in line.
Imagine MAX torque at zero revs off the line, followed up by the gas engine as the revs pick up.... kind of like the Turbo temp overboost function for the NA engines.

rijowysock

whole thing has me like "WTF"

im sorry but, the cayenna is a beautiful car.. i would never buy a toureg ever, i would never buy a range rover, would never buy GL55 or any other car similar.. i think the cayenne just looks stunning and stays with my "favorite brand"... and i feel the panamera is a beautiful alternative to the 911 for a daily mens driving car..

i think 911/panamera are very masculine and offer 2 totally different cars for someone to swap around.

the cayenne/boxter to me are very feminine and would offer 2 totally different cars for a wife/gf to swap around.

nyca

In June 2009, VW sold 330 Touaregs in the USA. If that's all they can build, I feel sorry for them.

The car sales market in southern california is strange, I don't know if its CARB controlling what models can be sold, but on every car blogs you read, people report stange sales practices and inventory issues in southern CA.

Go try and buy a Challenger in southern CA - forget it, they want $10-15K over sticker.

nyca

Indeed. if VW needs one less SUV - dump the Touareg, focus the VW brand on the Tiguan because they can sell a VW branded model in that size/price, and keep the Cayenne.

They are so hot to dump the Cayenne - maybe they should worry about what they going to do with the Routan.

Alan Smithee

Again, I am aware of the Boxster. However, the Boxster/Cayman line has increased in performance and has moved upmarket into the $50-60k+ range, as has its competition (Z4, M3, SLK, Elise/Exige, etc.). With the global economy and environmental regulations, as well as a hole in the $35-45k sports car market, I believe a Porsche at a new entry would do well. Yes, even if it is VW based.

For those that think it would "devalue the brand", check the sales figures posted in another thread. Note that the best selling model by far is the Cayenne V6 Tiptronic (also VW based), which offers almost nothing in terms of performance, luxury, or quality to justify its price, starts at $45k and is heavily discounted.

And regarding Bugatti, I was referring to success in building the brand. Porsche has a history of money-losing flagships as well.