talkinghead

If not, when do you think good numbers will show up?

westlaker

I think that comes right after the Bergenstern numbers.

Edgy01

I think it's a little early for good numbers on the Mannheim auctions for 09s.

Trader220

When you can get 10k off on a new one plus probably another 10% whats the point? How many 09's do you think will be going through the markets there at manheim for you to get a good basis on what one is going to trade at?

rijowysock

hopefully deals are done by the time the pricing starts coming up.

talkinghead

Well, that was my reason for asking. I'm on the buying side 'o things, and it's crazy out there now with many unknowns that I was hoping to get a concrete number. Here's an idea >

.

voda

Checked MMR and no reports for '09, but wouldn't expect any yet. Look closer to year end when dealers try move inventory. The Manheim Highline auction is around year end.

talkinghead

Thanks voda, any possibility of seeing the latest '08 S Cab numbers ?

voda

2009 C4S with 954 miles was in the Manheim Las Vegas auction 8/29/09....result not posted yet
2009 Carrera 673 miles Manheim Denver 8/30/09....result not yet posted

These are the only 2.

Will check on the '08

voda

08 C4S Cabrio

67,920 with 13,521miles Above
62,000 with 27,042miles Average
56,080 with 40,563miles Below

Total of six sales for week ending Aug. 27


For Sept. Average cost of $67,000 with a range from $63,000 to 70,000

talkinghead

I would guess that the C2S would be about the same as C4S? Just guessing that the 4 loses value faster than the 2, maybe not.

voda

Looks that way.

Here are some other numbers to consider, since essentially the '06 through '08's are the same car with changes in '09 997.2.

The following was copied from another post, but you may appreciate it:

If you want the most current pricing info you need the MMR (Manheim Market Report). This is what dealers use, not Blue Book, Edmunds, etc. The banks and dealers want the most upto date information, which is MMR. MMR is kept under wraps and dealers usually will not divulge the true results and if you look online you'll see articles discussing this and how it is next to impossible for non-dealers to get this protected information. Here is the latest MMR for the 2006 C2S:

For entire month of Aug. Average sale price: $44,900

For Week Ending Aug 23
........................... Above....... Average....... Below
Sale Price: ....... $54,781........ $46,781....... $38,781
Ave. Mileage ........ 14,489....... 28,977.......... 43,466
Total Sold All: ....... 14

Month ...................... Jun 2009....... Feb 2009......... Aug 2008
Ave Sale Price: ......... $45,495 ......... $47,080 ......... $61,315.........
Ave Mileage:............... 34,061......... 24,778............ 19,600.........
Total sold ................... 10 .................... 15.................. 10


These are factual reports. The deals are good on used 2006's, and it is a definite buyer's market with a huge selection to choose from.

Seegoblu

when does the introduction of the next model year start to depress auction values? Should we seeing it in September, October? How much impact would you expect? (e.g., from numbers below, I'm assuming the $14k drop from Aug 08 to Feb 09 is more about the economy than depreciation)

I've been curious about how the MMR works and am greatful for any insight.

thanks.

voda

This is the short version: Manheim is the largest auction service for dealers (dealers only, and this information is protected by dealers, they don't want you to have access) in the United States. No one else is even close. They are the auction. This is where dealers go to buy their cars. When you go to trade-in a car, the dealer will access Manheim and won't pay you more then they could go to auction and pick up the same car for (this doesn't mean they'll offer you MMR, but they sure won't offer you more than MMR unless you overpaid for the car from their dealership to begin with, or you are paying too much for the car you're trading-in for. MMR is the most upto date data on what any particular car is currently selling for. These are real numbers, not extrapolations. Manheim has so many auctions (you can't believe how many auctions and cars go through Manheim) that the data is always up to date, while other services are using last months or the month before's data. The scope of Manheim is boggling.

Kelly Blue Book and Edmonds take numbers from cars sold at auctions, sold by dealers, and use algorythms to extropolate the data (that is already out of date) in hopes of introducing current economic conditions, industry conditons, season, etc. This is why KBB, NADA, and Edmonds can give such different numbers for the same car. This is also why banks do not use these sources like they used to. Banks now use MMR.

So as a buyer, you can use MMR to know what range you should pay for a particular car. This is a very good negotiating tool, especially in the current market where dealers need to move inventory. They want to move inventory before year end, so many will be taking current inventory to auction if it doesn't move.

voda

As to the second part of your question regarding economy and depreciation, that's subjective, but they seem to go hand-in-hand. Keep in mind that the 997 is simply a used car. They are made in large volumes and will continue to depreciate. As soon as you drive it off the lot, it is a used car (granted its a used car that you'll enjoy). Many folks seem to confuse a modern Porsche with a collector car and put very few miles on them (which is better for the next buyer of the car), but why have it if you're only saving it for the next guy/gal? When you're talking about a car such as a 1973 Porsche RS, now that's a different animal all together and the rules are different.