cole328

So the E63 was a nice ride? I know its fast, but did oit handle?

swajames

I also agree that the M3 is no match for the E60 M5. The M3 can compete off the line, but once moving the M5 is much quicker and for me remains the better car. I also feel, as Cole328 mentioned, that the owner demographic with the M3 is a bit of a problem, it just seems to me to tend to be a less mature crowd than those who own the E60 M5. While I rarely if ever see E60 M5 owners driving needlessly aggressively, the converse seems to be true for the M3. I do like the M3, it's a great car, but for me, for the reasons above, the M5 would be the one I'd want to take home.

JEllis

A few comments here. I am surprised you think the M3 is "boy racer" but think the Porsche is a tamer. In my mind a Porsche is more in your face, thats why I sold my M3 DCT and bought a 997S ( I was looking for something flashy). By the way the hump on the hood sits just off of the ridiculous airbox on top of the engine. The spacing between the hood and the airbox is required by European regulations regarding collisions with pedestrians... no joke

I would not say that the performance differences between the 997.1/S and the M3 put them in different leagues. In fact, I would hazard to say that the M3 is faster, especially with DCT in a straight line. I also believe the 997.1S Ring times and the M3 ring times are almost identical. The same cant be said for the 997.2S ring times.

Now if you are talking overall feel, there is a huge difference. Compared to the M3, the 997 feels like a race car. From the seating position to the way the guages are layed out, the 997 is way more focused.

The M3, especially with DCT, was very easy to go fast in. If I could only have one car, I would probably choose an M3.


C63 AMG is mean mean mean but the M3 is the more focused of the two. The C63 AMG is Mercs best yet M3 fighter but as you read in all the comparo's, it just cant take the M3 on a road course. Its about ten seconds behind the M3 on the "Ring".


To the OP: In my opinion the M3 is currently the best all around sports car. But its "jack of all trades" attitude is a negative for buyers looking for focus. I loved my 08 M3 DCT but it did not have the focus I was looking for. I wanted something impractical, flashy, and a car that made me feel like a race car driver everytime I got behind the wheel. Hence I why I sold the M and bought my red beast.

Jason

swajames

Not strictly true, the 997.1S has a best time of 7:59, the E92 M3 has a best time of 8:05 and the 997.2S has a best time of 7:50 (but that was with PDK, PCCB, Sport Chrono and Pilot Sport Cup tires). The bigger surprise for me was that the 997.2S wasn't faster than it was when compared to the 997.1S, I'd expected to see a bigger difference given the new DFI engines and PDK.

JEllis

True... I was looking at just the Sport Auto times and missed the 7:59 posted by Walter R for Wheels Magazine. That being said the difference is 5 seconds. Which in essence puts the new M3 closer in performance to the 997 than the C63 AMG..... Point I was trying to make is that the actual performance numbers for the two are somewhat similar. Its the driving experience thats so different.

Jason

davtes

Great thoughts all around. I generally concur about the overall demographic position of the m3, but then again, if you love a car, who cares what everyone else thinks. In fact, in these difficult economic times i was a bit concerned about buying a brand new 911 and the image it would present. These are the days of a conservative fiscal approach, but I ultimately went with the mantra "screw what everyone else thinks, I needs me another Porsche".

I did not realize that i was truly bitten by the buy until i got rid of my 993....

texas911

I have a C63, its a fun little car. The torque is intoxicating and the stock exhaust makes you grin like a 10 year old at Christmas. Its a burn out specialist. True, not as nimble as the M3, but its not like its that far behind. Its a great daily driver, very practical with the 4 doors and proper trunk. Again, if you already have a 997, its a good contrast.

I also like that its pretty nondescript most of the time, until you floor it and the exhaust drowns everything out.

pickles

Test drove the new M3 and the outgoing RS4, have owned a 997.1 S, and have tested the 997.2 (C4S and C2). Frankly the M3 is the lesser of all these cars, sorry to say it. Lack of down low torque is dissapointing, but I guess it depends what you're driving it for. I am more of a twisty roads guy, not a track guy. M3 is probably better on the track, RS4 can be happy on either, and so can the 911s, although their low end torque still isn't quite as big as the Audi.

All great cars, but the M3 did nothing for me, and it was the sedan that I drove, if that matters. I have also driven the new 550i with sports package. Question, where is the torque in that car? I couldn't find it. Everything else on it was great though, steering, suspension, gearbox, brakes. All great. But the torque was missing, had to put out an APB for the torque.

P.S. (the new Cayman S is my favorite of all these cars, I know that's not a popular thought around here. If only it had back seats that didn't change the weight or dynamics of the car, heh.).

cole328

Sheat...I have no idea what I am going to get next...Oh well, at least I have 11 months to decide (and enjoy the current ride). Problem is that in the $80-100K range, sadly, there is no current car that really gets my rocks off (well, other than the current ride).

996FourEss

M3 is a decent car, but having just got out of one after seven days in Austria (there on vaca with wife and son, rented a M3 from Sixt for about 110 euros a day....) got to say it was a little disappointing (and I owned the last of the M3 sixes which I loved at the time). Before buying, you should definately try an old RS4 (which you can prob get on the cheap), or, hope that the new RS4 is launched. The Audi 4.2 V8 has better low down torque than the BMW, sounds much much better, both at idle, and then onwards, (M3 sounds like a 3-series low-stressed six below four-thousand rpm....) and also pulls as hard almost through the entire rev range. Other complaints with the M3: you can feel vibrations from the window wipers when wiping through the brake pedal, which is very annoying (I could not make this up!!!), and the electronic throttle has a wierd action to it that when you floor it, at some point there is a click and the peddle comes back a little towards you..... DSG wonderful from a technical point but strangely souless and missed having a manual.

At the end of the ady, nice car, decently fast on the autobahn (although the A8 that I was on [Munich - Salzburg] is one of the older ones, and mostly two lanes, so never got the car over 230 kmh). Fuel consumption for the week was 14.6l/100km, so a good liter above my 996 4S, but not bad for a V8.

Conclusions. Fast, high quality car constrained by its basic design. i.e. relatively higher center of gravity means you don't feel pinned to the road; front engine/transmission weight bias results in lack of decent weight over the rear axle (due to absence of transaxle) which constrains traction - the DSC intervenes a lot, especially in hairpin turns. It was never designed from scratch to be a sports car, rather it is a very good sporting version of a sedan car, but that's why you get the extra space and practicality right. Still, when it comes down to it, I personally would tend towards the RS4. People that know cars know what it is, and to everyone else you don't attract attention. Re the C63, amazing engine which sounds absolutely fantastic, but would not even consider it without getting the optional performance package as it is almost criminal to have this car with a LSD, but personally, would get frustrated with the damn auto transmission.

One last thought, if you are looking to drop 80 - 100k for a second "practical" car to the 911, probably worth giving a Panamera a test.......