993 vs 550i vs 997
#17
Racer
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: San Jose, California
Posts: 400
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I also agree that the M3 is no match for the E60 M5. The M3 can compete off the line, but once moving the M5 is much quicker and for me remains the better car. I also feel, as Cole328 mentioned, that the owner demographic with the M3 is a bit of a problem, it just seems to me to tend to be a less mature crowd than those who own the E60 M5. While I rarely if ever see E60 M5 owners driving needlessly aggressively, the converse seems to be true for the M3. I do like the M3, it's a great car, but for me, for the reasons above, the M5 would be the one I'd want to take home.
#18
M3 is too "boy racer" for me, but I like it in other respects. I can't stand the fans on the M3 forums, the fanboys are insufferable. I wish they had not spoiled it with that (seemingly) exaggerated HUMP on the hood. I may have to go with the next M5, and I find I fit better into that demographic anyway. Seriously, the M3 owners have almost ruined my desire to own one, aside from the HUMPY problem.
As far as overall performance the 997S is in an entirely different class than the M3 - the 'ring time is 15 seconds or so faster in the Porsche, which is about the same margin of the e92M3 over the e46M3
M3 vs. m5: Of course the M3 is better in the twisties but straight line they're actually not that similar. The 0-60 or 0-100 times may be close because they're from a stop and the M5's weight is hindering it off the line, but from a roll they're two very different cars from 3rd gear on up. The M5 has a better power to weight ratio. A large number of cars can be neck and neck in 1st & 2nd gear.
Here's a recent video of the heavier M5 Touring vs. the M3:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocfsrSsc7Rw
M3 vs. m5: Of course the M3 is better in the twisties but straight line they're actually not that similar. The 0-60 or 0-100 times may be close because they're from a stop and the M5's weight is hindering it off the line, but from a roll they're two very different cars from 3rd gear on up. The M5 has a better power to weight ratio. A large number of cars can be neck and neck in 1st & 2nd gear.
Here's a recent video of the heavier M5 Touring vs. the M3:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocfsrSsc7Rw
Now if you are talking overall feel, there is a huge difference. Compared to the M3, the 997 feels like a race car. From the seating position to the way the guages are layed out, the 997 is way more focused.
The M3, especially with DCT, was very easy to go fast in. If I could only have one car, I would probably choose an M3.
i drove the m3 too. was between it, the m5 and the e63 amg before i talked the wife into the 911. the m3 reminded me of a 4-door camaro. m5 awesome, e63 rediculously awesome. also check out the C63 amg if you are considering the M3. i liked the mercedes better than the M3.
C63 AMG is mean mean mean but the M3 is the more focused of the two. The C63 AMG is Mercs best yet M3 fighter but as you read in all the comparo's, it just cant take the M3 on a road course. Its about ten seconds behind the M3 on the "Ring".
To the OP: In my opinion the M3 is currently the best all around sports car. But its "jack of all trades" attitude is a negative for buyers looking for focus. I loved my 08 M3 DCT but it did not have the focus I was looking for. I wanted something impractical, flashy, and a car that made me feel like a race car driver everytime I got behind the wheel. Hence I why I sold the M and bought my red beast.
Jason
Last edited by JEllis; 08-25-2009 at 04:06 PM.
#19
Racer
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: San Jose, California
Posts: 400
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Not strictly true, the 997.1S has a best time of 7:59, the E92 M3 has a best time of 8:05 and the 997.2S has a best time of 7:50 (but that was with PDK, PCCB, Sport Chrono and Pilot Sport Cup tires). The bigger surprise for me was that the 997.2S wasn't faster than it was when compared to the 997.1S, I'd expected to see a bigger difference given the new DFI engines and PDK.
#20
Not strictly true, the 997.1S has a best time of 7:59, the E92 M3 has a best time of 8:05 and the 997.2S has a best time of 7:50 (but that was with PDK, PCCB, Sport Chrono and Pilot Sport Cup tires). The bigger surprise for me was that the 997.2S wasn't faster than it was when compared to the 997.1S, I'd expected to see a bigger difference given the new DFI engines and PDK.
Jason
#21
AutoX
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Greenwich, Ct
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Great thoughts all around. I generally concur about the overall demographic position of the m3, but then again, if you love a car, who cares what everyone else thinks. In fact, in these difficult economic times i was a bit concerned about buying a brand new 911 and the image it would present. These are the days of a conservative fiscal approach, but I ultimately went with the mantra "screw what everyone else thinks, I needs me another Porsche".
I did not realize that i was truly bitten by the buy until i got rid of my 993....
I did not realize that i was truly bitten by the buy until i got rid of my 993....
#22
Race Car
I also like that its pretty nondescript most of the time, until you floor it and the exhaust drowns everything out.
#23
Test drove the new M3 and the outgoing RS4, have owned a 997.1 S, and have tested the 997.2 (C4S and C2). Frankly the M3 is the lesser of all these cars, sorry to say it. Lack of down low torque is dissapointing, but I guess it depends what you're driving it for. I am more of a twisty roads guy, not a track guy. M3 is probably better on the track, RS4 can be happy on either, and so can the 911s, although their low end torque still isn't quite as big as the Audi.
All great cars, but the M3 did nothing for me, and it was the sedan that I drove, if that matters. I have also driven the new 550i with sports package. Question, where is the torque in that car? I couldn't find it. Everything else on it was great though, steering, suspension, gearbox, brakes. All great. But the torque was missing, had to put out an APB for the torque.
P.S. (the new Cayman S is my favorite of all these cars, I know that's not a popular thought around here. If only it had back seats that didn't change the weight or dynamics of the car, heh.).
All great cars, but the M3 did nothing for me, and it was the sedan that I drove, if that matters. I have also driven the new 550i with sports package. Question, where is the torque in that car? I couldn't find it. Everything else on it was great though, steering, suspension, gearbox, brakes. All great. But the torque was missing, had to put out an APB for the torque.
P.S. (the new Cayman S is my favorite of all these cars, I know that's not a popular thought around here. If only it had back seats that didn't change the weight or dynamics of the car, heh.).
#24
Three Wheelin'
Sheat...I have no idea what I am going to get next...Oh well, at least I have 11 months to decide (and enjoy the current ride). Problem is that in the $80-100K range, sadly, there is no current car that really gets my rocks off (well, other than the current ride).
#25
Instructor
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 112
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
M3 is a decent car, but having just got out of one after seven days in Austria (there on vaca with wife and son, rented a M3 from Sixt for about 110 euros a day....) got to say it was a little disappointing (and I owned the last of the M3 sixes which I loved at the time). Before buying, you should definately try an old RS4 (which you can prob get on the cheap), or, hope that the new RS4 is launched. The Audi 4.2 V8 has better low down torque than the BMW, sounds much much better, both at idle, and then onwards, (M3 sounds like a 3-series low-stressed six below four-thousand rpm....) and also pulls as hard almost through the entire rev range. Other complaints with the M3: you can feel vibrations from the window wipers when wiping through the brake pedal, which is very annoying (I could not make this up!!!), and the electronic throttle has a wierd action to it that when you floor it, at some point there is a click and the peddle comes back a little towards you..... DSG wonderful from a technical point but strangely souless and missed having a manual.
At the end of the ady, nice car, decently fast on the autobahn (although the A8 that I was on [Munich - Salzburg] is one of the older ones, and mostly two lanes, so never got the car over 230 kmh). Fuel consumption for the week was 14.6l/100km, so a good liter above my 996 4S, but not bad for a V8.
Conclusions. Fast, high quality car constrained by its basic design. i.e. relatively higher center of gravity means you don't feel pinned to the road; front engine/transmission weight bias results in lack of decent weight over the rear axle (due to absence of transaxle) which constrains traction - the DSC intervenes a lot, especially in hairpin turns. It was never designed from scratch to be a sports car, rather it is a very good sporting version of a sedan car, but that's why you get the extra space and practicality right. Still, when it comes down to it, I personally would tend towards the RS4. People that know cars know what it is, and to everyone else you don't attract attention. Re the C63, amazing engine which sounds absolutely fantastic, but would not even consider it without getting the optional performance package as it is almost criminal to have this car with a LSD, but personally, would get frustrated with the damn auto transmission.
One last thought, if you are looking to drop 80 - 100k for a second "practical" car to the 911, probably worth giving a Panamera a test.......
At the end of the ady, nice car, decently fast on the autobahn (although the A8 that I was on [Munich - Salzburg] is one of the older ones, and mostly two lanes, so never got the car over 230 kmh). Fuel consumption for the week was 14.6l/100km, so a good liter above my 996 4S, but not bad for a V8.
Conclusions. Fast, high quality car constrained by its basic design. i.e. relatively higher center of gravity means you don't feel pinned to the road; front engine/transmission weight bias results in lack of decent weight over the rear axle (due to absence of transaxle) which constrains traction - the DSC intervenes a lot, especially in hairpin turns. It was never designed from scratch to be a sports car, rather it is a very good sporting version of a sedan car, but that's why you get the extra space and practicality right. Still, when it comes down to it, I personally would tend towards the RS4. People that know cars know what it is, and to everyone else you don't attract attention. Re the C63, amazing engine which sounds absolutely fantastic, but would not even consider it without getting the optional performance package as it is almost criminal to have this car with a LSD, but personally, would get frustrated with the damn auto transmission.
One last thought, if you are looking to drop 80 - 100k for a second "practical" car to the 911, probably worth giving a Panamera a test.......