VW Porsche, vis-a-vis the P-car Eliitists
#1
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VW Porsche, vis-a-vis the P-car Eliitists
Many years ago when I had my initial introduction to the Porsche line of cars, I purchased a 914 1.7 liter car. It was assembled at the Osnabrück VW factory that formerly assembled the VW Karmann Ghia. The engines by then were only the VW 411 design, a flat, boxer engine with 4 cylinders. i think the output on my little 1.7 liter engine was about 69 HP tuned for the California emissions laws for 1973. It was shortly after that in which I was rudely introduced to the Porsche elite. These were the Porsche owners who were constantly reminding me that my lowly 914 wasn't a "real Porsche" and that it was powered by a VW engine. Only the name "Porsche" appeared across the middle engine grill, immediately aft of the cockpit, and embossed on the steering wheel. These elitists were generally drivers of the model 911, then about 9 years old.
Today, we finally have Porsche no longer independent, and a sub-manufacturer to the mighty Volkswagen Werks. There have been countless collaborative efforts between VW and Porsche over the years,--as well as Audi. Remember the 924? it was originally a Porsche design that was going to be badged as a VW and manufactured by their plant in Neckarsulm,--a former Audi-NSU plant. But Porsche, at the Nth hour, chose to retain the manufacturing rights and built it at that same plant in Neckarsulm,--just north of Heilbronn, which is about 30 minutes north of Stuttgart by Porsche. (Ask me how I know). The 924 begat the 944, which became the 944 Turbo, and ultimately the 968. Were any of these "lesser" Porsches? Even the Cayenne body today is made at a VW assembly plant, as is now the Panamera. Only the final assembly is made for those two in Leipzig. Engines, however, continue to be assembled in Zuffenhausen.
To many, the 914 was referred to as a "VoPo" which was a rude abbreviation in West Germany for the "Volks Politzei" or East German Police. (Many thought it was a modern day Gestapo). But I was very happy with my lowly 914. I drove it for several years, enjoying the unique handling of a mid-engined sports car. In many ways, I wish they built them still today. (I think they have something close,--the Boxster, presently only being built in Zuffenhausen until the economy picks up)
As we begin a new era, post an independent Porsche organization, it will be interesting to follow along and see how the elitists handle this change. Will they admit to their friends that they drive what is ultimately a Wolfsberg creation? Perhaps some of the elite air cooled vice water cooled elitist behavior will taper off as well.
Frankly, I'm extremely pleased to have been able to buy and own "Porsches" over the decades, no matter what their origins or pedigrees. It would have been a terrible world without a Porsche, no matter how many cylinders or where its placement. Time will tell how Wolfsberg handles the Porsche line of cars. Ultimately, I hope this change will bring all Porsche owners together rather than apart over petty things.
Today, we finally have Porsche no longer independent, and a sub-manufacturer to the mighty Volkswagen Werks. There have been countless collaborative efforts between VW and Porsche over the years,--as well as Audi. Remember the 924? it was originally a Porsche design that was going to be badged as a VW and manufactured by their plant in Neckarsulm,--a former Audi-NSU plant. But Porsche, at the Nth hour, chose to retain the manufacturing rights and built it at that same plant in Neckarsulm,--just north of Heilbronn, which is about 30 minutes north of Stuttgart by Porsche. (Ask me how I know). The 924 begat the 944, which became the 944 Turbo, and ultimately the 968. Were any of these "lesser" Porsches? Even the Cayenne body today is made at a VW assembly plant, as is now the Panamera. Only the final assembly is made for those two in Leipzig. Engines, however, continue to be assembled in Zuffenhausen.
To many, the 914 was referred to as a "VoPo" which was a rude abbreviation in West Germany for the "Volks Politzei" or East German Police. (Many thought it was a modern day Gestapo). But I was very happy with my lowly 914. I drove it for several years, enjoying the unique handling of a mid-engined sports car. In many ways, I wish they built them still today. (I think they have something close,--the Boxster, presently only being built in Zuffenhausen until the economy picks up)
As we begin a new era, post an independent Porsche organization, it will be interesting to follow along and see how the elitists handle this change. Will they admit to their friends that they drive what is ultimately a Wolfsberg creation? Perhaps some of the elite air cooled vice water cooled elitist behavior will taper off as well.
Frankly, I'm extremely pleased to have been able to buy and own "Porsches" over the decades, no matter what their origins or pedigrees. It would have been a terrible world without a Porsche, no matter how many cylinders or where its placement. Time will tell how Wolfsberg handles the Porsche line of cars. Ultimately, I hope this change will bring all Porsche owners together rather than apart over petty things.
Last edited by Edgy01; 07-24-2009 at 03:13 AM.
#3
Burning Brakes
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It's Wolfsburg!
The road cars will always be nice while carrying on with the sports car aspect. What i want is Porsche to continue is presence in top levels of racing. VW being the parent company now has led to many questions of the breakdown of racing programs for the future.
The road cars will always be nice while carrying on with the sports car aspect. What i want is Porsche to continue is presence in top levels of racing. VW being the parent company now has led to many questions of the breakdown of racing programs for the future.
#4
All things considered, I would have preferred that Porsche remain independent and that WW continue to run it. But, in a showdown with Piech, WW had to go despite his genius and accomplishments. As for the independence issue, I am not an enthusiast for mergers and corporate acquisitions. Many of them are a function of executive vanity and greed, and stifle the acquired company's creativity. Yet, VW has done a very nice job with Audi so I will hold my breath. As for elitism, that doesn't enter into the driving fun I have every day.
#5
Three Wheelin'
Excellent post. Age and memory offer us an essential perspective. Porsche has tradionally done a good job of offering an upscale, but not exotic, sports car to reasonably affulent customers who typically expect to drive their Porsche regularly if not daily. Porsche may have competed w/ Ferrari in motorsports, but that was never the goal in terms of selling road cars. This philosophy will not change under the VW umbrella. Piech has always been a motorsport enthusiast, having personally developed some of Porsche's most historic race cars such as the 917. Porsche motorsports may flourish under Piech far more than it did w/ Weideking. The most vulnerable segment of the Porsche model line to dilution w/ Audi/VW is the Boxster/Cayman.
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Lambo has improved under VW, why not Porsche? Had Porsche been successful in it's bid to take over VW, would not Porsche had incorporated many of VW parts, combining resources to cut cost? Many often compare the quality of the 964 to that of the 993 although the 993 cost less, then to the 996 & 997 often stating had the later P cars had the quality of the 993's that Porsche couldn't afford to build them. VW/Audi has technology that Porsche wanted to get it's hands on, now Porsche will have access. Hopefully we will benefit.
#7
Three Wheelin'
I wish Porsche would start doing a few of the things VW already is, such as the TDI cup. A basic racing series with production based vehicles that is affordable enough for an average joe to buy a new spec car and compete in.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6vnP...eature=related
Go to 2:50, funny what Jeremy Clarkson says. So true!
Go to 2:50, funny what Jeremy Clarkson says. So true!
#9
Nordschleife Master
I agree with you. The association with VW was inevitable no matter what. Like all mergers, we shall see what its future implications will be.
BTW... that 914 in Europe was actually badged as a VW-Porsche 914.
BTW... that 914 in Europe was actually badged as a VW-Porsche 914.
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Weideking was right. Porsche could not survive as an independent in this world. As others have pointed out, Porsche depended on VAG for parts and assembly. With the complexity of meeting various and conflicting requirements in world markets, PAG is/was too small to afford the R and D needed. In the end the two companies had to merge, whether under the Porsche or VAG banner, it doesn't matter.
Let's hope Piech remembers his fondness for racing!
Let's hope Piech remembers his fondness for racing!
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Lambo has improved under VW, why not Porsche? Had Porsche been successful in it's bid to take over VW, would not Porsche had incorporated many of VW parts, combining resources to cut cost? Many often compare the quality of the 964 to that of the 993 although the 993 cost less, then to the 996 & 997 often stating had the later P cars had the quality of the 993's that Porsche couldn't afford to build them. VW/Audi has technology that Porsche wanted to get it's hands on, now Porsche will have access. Hopefully we will benefit.
Weideking was right. Porsche could not survive as an independent in this world. As others have pointed out, Porsche depended on VAG for parts and assembly. With the complexity of meeting various and conflicting requirements in world markets, PAG is/was too small to afford the R and D needed. In the end the two companies had to merge, whether under the Porsche or VAG banner, it doesn't matter.
Let's hope Piech remembers his fondness for racing!
Let's hope Piech remembers his fondness for racing!
Lamborghini is producing phenomenal cars under VW ownership, by some margin the best cars it has ever built. Whether Porsche owned VW or, as is now likely, VW owns Porsche the net result would probably have been the same and it's probably something that will indeed benefit us as owners.
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I agree with Bob, It doesnt matter. VW-Porsche or Porsche VDub. It was gonna happen. Its been an incestuous relationship since the beginning. Its almost natural. The only difference is who is at top. Most of us didnt like Widey so the other option is Piechy Keen. WHo ever it was they have a keen idea of what Porsche is about. I remember some vehicle I had 914 944 what ever had Porsche vW audi on the glass.
#15
In the world we live in today, the car companies can no longer afford to go it alone. They use parts bought from other companies, (the magnetic suspension in the Ferrari 599 is from GM), and they share development costs. This might help Porsche make better cars.