hlee1169

Exactly, I agree, but so far I have not experienced this. My first car was from Stevens Creek Porsche, and I even got my brother to get a cayman s from them. When I wanted to get the 2009 C2S, you would think they would do whatever to keep me as a returned customer, right? But no. No mentioned of the 3 month break on the First Mile program. If they had told me, I would not have gone to Fremont Porsche. It was them pushing me away, because I don't feel like they value me as a return customer.

boolala

In some states you have a 48 to 72 hour window to back out of a written contract if, after you have investigated it, you are not satisfied. Does this hold for leases as well?

ScottMorrison

There are VERY FEW car dealers who are straight shooters, 100% of the time - they are affected and influenced by the greed of profit - the more the better. If they can bamboozle someone, more often than not they'll do it. Unfortunately, that's why automobile dealerships in general have such a poor reputation for unethical and unprofessional behavior. BUYER BEWARE!!

Trader220

boola... in PA i think its 3 days.

Scott... IMO that perception is perpetuated based on the stories of many fewer than the majority of buyers. People tend to bitch and moan a lot louder when they think they have been scammed as compared to people who got an honest deal. I would wager that in the long run ( huge sample size ) that the crooked car salesman are no greater % of the whole than in any other profession.

Your opinion that there are “very few car dealers who are straight shooter” is just an opinion nothing more. Everyone in every profession is affected by greed, to say with certainty that car sales people do it more than shoe sales or securities sales or lawyers or accountants or engineers or whatever is rubbish, you simply have no way of knowing. Nor do you have any way of knowing what % of the time they do it. You’ve slung a lot of mud based on nothing more than common generalizations and reactionary opinions.

ds2k1

should do a poll on the percentage of car salesmen people thought were straight shooters based on personal experience. speaking personally, i've interacted with at least 50, purchased from roughly 10 or so. i'd say that 3 of the 10 i've purchased from were in the neighborhood of what i'd call a "straight shooter". by that i mean that they played no to relatively no games with me on the purchase of a car. the other 7 were trying to get away with whatever they could, kept honest only by whatever knowledge i possessed. if i were to generalize on the 50 or so i've interacted with, i'd say i could probably count on one hand the number of them that left me with a favorable impression. and that's not counting any sales pros on this forum, since i haven't done business with any of them.

daddyscar

From my experience you can work out a deal with your salesperson only to have the finance guy screw with the numbers.

Example 1. 2007 Honda Civic Hybrid lease. I got the best money factor, residual, and price based on what I found online. I go to sign the papers. Monthly payment checks out but mileage goes down from 15k to 10k per year. They raised the money factor. I was pissed but just wanted to finish. SF Honda apologized and put the right numbers back in.

Example 2. 2008 MB GL450. Same as above at SF MB. This time I didn't catch a $300 markup on the lease fee acquisition fee and $700 vehicle transfer fee (car was transferred from LA to SF but I didn't request the transfer). So I thought I leased the truck at invoice when really it was essentially $1k over invoice.

boolala

But the question still remians: did not the OP have the option of recinding the contract once he got home and found out that the MF had been changed? What is the law in California? How long does one have to recind a signed sales agreement?

daddyscar

there is no cool off period in CA. there's a sign in every dealer booth/office.

jcnesq

In Calif, I don't think there is any right to back out (other than rescinding the contract based on fraud, e.g lawsuit time.

I think the OP got scammed. It's one thing to haggle over price and feel you got overcharged - no issue there, it's a free market. But this dealer took advantage of a known benefit available from a third party(PFS) without honest disclosure, not to mention they were dishonestly dragging their heals paying off what they agreed.

hlee1169

Well, I am giving the dealer some time to handle this, although I am a bit worried because I notified the dealer in person on Thursday, and PFS called them and left a message as well. PFS told me that no one from the dealer has called her back, and this is not assuring to me because the dealer should have told PFS, "Yes, we should have paid, give us some time for the paperwork." Plus, I got my car in last week of May, and now the money is overdue for almost 2 months. I am glad PFS has not referred my account to a debt collector, because that would really f*ck up my credit rating.

boolala

Then before signing any contract I would ask the dealer to give me the contract to thoroughly review (at least overnight). Sure this sounds like 20/20 hindsight but it sounds like good advice for the future if the law does not give one any other recourse.

And people are becoming defensive when autodealers are dissed. This stuff angers me no end.

There was a case in Florida where a dealership was indicted for swindling their customers for (get this) adding instead of subtracting the value of their trade in to the cap cost.

Folks if you're going to lease a car you have an obligation to yourself to understand every item in that contract and to go over it with the finance manger. Check their math, even if it takes 5 hours of their time. Calculate the monthly payment based upon the term, agreed upon selling price, cap cost reduction and money factor. If it doesn't agree with what the contract says then ask them to explain the discrepancy.

Leasing is fraught with fraud and and hazard because people don't understand the basic principles behind it and there are more ways to hide spurious charges.

Marco8

+1 Be on your toes, often the dealership shrewdest salespeople are in F & I

ADias

shrewd | sh roōd|
adjective
1 having or showing sharp powers of judgment; astute : she was shrewd enough to guess the motive behind his gesture | a shrewd career move. See note at keen .
2 archaic (esp. of weather) piercingly cold : a shrewd east wind.
• (of a blow) severe : a bayonet's shrewd thrust.
• mischievous; malicious.

Only the archaic form applies here.

stevepow

I walked in to the dealership with a laptop and Excel with my version of the deal all sorted out. When our numbers matched and I understood every charge, I signed the deal.

I probably didn't need to do that with these guys where I purchased, but, in the end, it was good - I had zero questions and no surprises.

BobbyB

Wow-sorry to hear but very happy PFS hasn't referred you to a debt collector. Have you considered getting a refund from the car dealer for the portion they were to send to PFS and paying PFS yourself to protect your credit rating?