Cloak&Dagger

Well said.

chsu74

I think people here agree that money cannot buy class. 3 series BMWs have become affordable in recent years and you will continue to see more of the below. I always had my BMW serviced at the dealer until I had a terrible experience and will never go back there again.

I also recently just found that I was charged for a full brake replacement and only the front brake rotors and pads were replaced. The parking brake was adjusted so it felt like new. How did I find out? I felt my rotors recently and my rear rotors are significantly more worn than my fronts.

I will not raise a stink. I will just not go back.

9elf S

"I want your best price on this 911." I've used a variation of this line by email in the past three years to purchase two new Porsches and a Mercedes. Does that make me a serious buyer? Would you ignore my email?

Ultimately, I think the OP is lamenting creative destruction at work in the dealership business model. The internet has ushered in a new form of competition for car dealers. They no longer compete locally, but now regionally and even nationally with other dealers.

Case in point: When I purchased each of my cars I sent the "gimmee your best price" email to about a dozen dealers in a 350 mile radius. I was clear in my emails that I was soliciting best price quotes from multiple dealers and would respond to the dealer that offered the best price. About half of the dealers didn't respond or were non-responsive (i.e., give me a call to talk). Still, a significant number took my email seriously and put forth a real offer to sell. I then followed-up with the lowest offer to sell dealer and, after getting comfortable that their offer was legitimate, I sent a thank you email to the other dealers for participating. Not surprising, I received a couple of emails from rejected dealers offering to match or sell at a lower price, which I rejected out of principle.

I sympathize with the OP in that the change wrought by creative destruction can be brutal at its core. As much as some people say they like change, the vast majority of us resist and bemoan it. Still, that won't stop it from happening.

boolala

I love that term 'creative destruction."

Businesses either change or die.

Seems some dealers have chosen self-immolation.

Eharrison

So true. I made an offer on an Audi A4 Avant in San Francisco and the guy told me his "manager" wouldn't budge since it was the only car like that for 150 miles. I'm over 400 miles away. I asked him if he remembered where I lived, which he knew. What I should have asked is if he was on page 4 (regional) of B.S. excuses, or page 5 (internet)?

OldGuy

I didnt read this whole thread and I know you are a Porsche salesguy or manager. And as such I consider you to be up the food chain from the chevy dealer. But this is what puts us on guard as buyers:

I go to look at a Z06. Many people have told me this is the most bang for the buck. I call the salesman and let him know I am coming as I live an hour away. I tell him I am an experienced high end buyer and seller. I have bought and sold 3 911s two of them new, and 4 BMWs all new. I am trying to let him know I dont want any bullcrap and please deal with me on my level. I go on the Friday that I told him and I show up within 30 seconds of when I said I was going to. He comments 'Wow you are punctual".
We go look at the car. Its out of gas. The back has got grass in it like the sales guys have been driving to the golf course. It has 800 miles on it. It smells like smoke. The leather has been ruined around the dash where they left the windows cracked in a rain storm and didnt clean it. I wait 30 minutes for them to put gas in it. The salesman called me when I was 45 minutes out and it was still empty. We go for the drive and it was OK but it aint no 911. But I tell the salesman that I KNOW Z06s are selling for about 15K off MSRP. I tell him I KNOW there are still 08 Z06s on the showroom floor and selling for 22K off MSRP. We get back and he says Let me talk to the manager. I said FU@K I dont want to play charades!! He didnt NEED to go to the manager to get me a ballpark figure. I just want a price for the Z06 and the trade price on my 09 AMG that is PERFECT and has 2000 miles on it. The stupid manager comes back after a 30 minute exam of my AMG and he says the Z06 is 89K with the dealer paint protection system on it (the MSRP was 81K) but they are going to knock off 5K off the price for a BUY IT TODAY price of 84K (STILL 3K OVER MSRP!!!!!) THEN to insult me more, and I am serious my EARS are burning by this point I am so angry, He offers me 12 THOUSAND dollars LESS that the LOWEST Manhiem Price I have seen for my car!!! So even though these cars are equal in price and Mine was in BETTER shape I was going to have to come up with around $45 THOUSAND dollars to make the deal work. The deal was on a piece of paper and I walked out wadded it up and threw it in the trash before I left the showroom. This was LAST month. Now tell me why
I am supposed to treat you seriously?

Now having said all that and thats typical of 90% of car dealers I go to. I have to look hard to find Salespeople who can complete a whole sentence without a smoke break OR where I KNOW they are lying. I dont call untill I have all the numbers on both sides.
HOWEVER, My BMW dealer and my Porsche salesguy both in Bakersfield are very intelligent. Both have a passion for the cars they sell. My BMW salesman even has a passion for Porsches. My Porsche guy always is dressed to kill and he could walk into a board meeting anywhere and look in place. The problem is my Bakersfield doesnt get enough volume to get GT3s or GT2s. He gets a TT every once in awhile.
So while I know there are idiot buyers and probably 50% of people who walk into a Porsche showroom dont have a CLUE about how much money one costs I would guess you would know that and expect that and deal with it. My mechanic is also at my Bakersfield dealer and I have no problems going there for warranty stuff or maintenance.

I would also think that you as a sales guy would expect MORE tire kickers in this economy and since VP Biden has already said the brain trust that put us terminally in debt as a country, misread the problems
this economy has, its not going to get better for 18 months or so. I would expect that anyone in sales in this economy is going to have to work harder to get buyers to commit.

79 911SC

Amen OldGuy!

allegretto

OG,

that's a pretty level recantation of what happens at most domestic car dealers. lots of BS and more than a little confusion. in some cases it is partially intentional, in most however it is simply a reflection of the incompetence of the place. and not a small contributor to why the big three are fast becoming the "medium three", or perhaps the "medium two and DC too".

anyway, i wouldn't lay that @ Trader 220's feet. i think he comes off as intelligent and likely knowledgeable, but in all likelihood vastly misread the audience here.

i hate to resurrect old political lines, but never in my life was this one more appropriate than now; "...it's the Economy, stupid..."

i trust no one here will imagine i am speaking directly to them, so please, i don't dabble in ad hominem, i didn't invent the line.

1Carnut

I am certainly not taking sides, nor trying to brag, but in the last 10 years I have purchased 129 (soon to be 130) cars from various dealers. The dealers I have dealt with in 95% percent of the sales are within 25 miles of my home, and they all know me by name, not just the person I deal with, but almost every employee, and I would say I have a great relationship with all of them, but I have also watched how hard they work to get a sale, and watched them be gracious to people who even I could tell had no intention of perchasing a car. I spent a couple years having lunch every Saturday with the group at Algar Ferrari, and I used to asked them how they did it, dealt with the endless parade of non buyers that walked in the showroom, they told me "Hey it's part of the job", and just like evey other job (mine included) it has its drawbacks. I hate to be the one to tell all you folks in the car business this, but the days of waiting lists, high margins, and feeling exclusive are over, they may come back some day, but not for a long while. I for one know I do not have the temperment to sell cars, perhaps some others here do not either.

medtech

OG,

You just summed up most of my car buying experiences.

I too have called ahead and spoke to a sales mgr to let them know I was coming, what I wanted, and that I wanted a senior sales person. What did I get? The next pimply faced kid standing at the door who knew about as much about cars as I know about the space shuttle. Or the girl who knows slightly more about the car than the kid, but can't take me on a test drive cause it's dark out.

jhott66

I don't write much on this board but had to chime in on this. What the OP wrote in the original post is PRECISELY why I hate new car dealers, new/used car salespeople, and why I avoid them like the Swine Flu.
The car dealer/sales experience, in my opinion, is a large reason why the car industry has the poor reputation that it has. The experience is cast in dark shadows, is confrontational even at it's best, is stressful, and adds no value to the product (the car) that is being purchased.

stevepow

A new 911 is not $100K - just sayin'...

"911" is a vague specification at any rate.

I get to thinking about all these post - even @ $100K, 10% is $10K. So if a deal is even as much as +/- $2-3K and that is causing someone to lose sleep or have angst - I mean some serious angst is flying around - over buying the car, maybe it was just something better not done. At the end of the day, if that money is a huge bother - and I don't mean to say that it is unimportant, but put it in proper context of a couple of % - there's some other problem I think.

If the deal is so horrible that you will feel completely screwed, don't do it. Simple enough. If ALL deals seem that horrible, that means market demand has priced the car to a point where you won't feel good about buying it - so don't.

As for the OP, like I said before - this person has a sales job but does not understand sales and is not yet a sales professional - perhaps never will be, but if they want to be; much to learn. This post could be one of those lessons.

blake

A 2009 C4S Targa - a non-turbo 911 - has a base price of $102,050. Sure, a base Carrera starts at $77,250 - but I think the posters point is that +$100K territory was reserved for specialty 911s & turbos - not base models. (Looking at MJones recent sales reports, the "s" deginations is the new standard IMHO)

Within the last decade, new Porsches cost 10-15% less. I understand the issues with inflation and exchange rates, but are we really seeing 10-15% more value in the 911 "base" and "S" product lines? (I DO see value in the Turbos, GT2 & GT3... A new GT3 for $112,000 is a steal!)

I agree will all of your other points though...

-B

Paul S.

Precisely--that is why a "serious" buyer doesn't want to give you personal information until you, the salesperson, provide a price that is realistically close to a real deal.

Part of me is very glad I've got my Club Coupe and not in the market. The dealership I bought my 6 Porsches from (during the period from 1998 until 2005) has seen the "light", and it's a dark one indeed. Now I get harassed with telephone surveys, bogus offers to buy my Club Coupe at top dollar, and then to add insult to injury, when I turned my Audi A6 into the same dealership, I almost had to take a taxi (this is Dallas--cabs are virtually unheard of) back home because there was ostensibly no one who could take half an hour round trip to drive me 6 miles to my home, in the car I was about to turn in off lease.

But I'm good enough to be cold called and sent endless streams of junk mail, but not a good enough customer that a ride home wasn't a "sure thing Mr. S. let's see who I can get to drop you back home".

I kid you not, there was not one single customer in the showroom on a Saturday afternoon at 2PM on June 9, 2009. Way to go the extra mile and perhaps maintain some goodwill for when I AM in the market.

And I want to give my personal information to another dealer, just to show I'm "serious"? I don't think so.

Honestly, I am beginning to wish the dealership who has sold me all my Porsches didn't have my info. I do not appreciate being treated as "dear occupant" when they random dial my phone or fill my mailbox with junk mail, but barely give me the time of day in person when God forbid I am turning in the car I leased from them 3 years ago with low miles, new tires, clean as a whistle and with 2 prospective buyers to go with it. I have no doubt the dealer will know who I am, as they read these boards too. But I will be nice and not trash them specifically by name here.

Sorry for the thread hijack and rant, but I just find it incredible that anyone in the car sales business does not understand why in a buyer's market, a buyer fed up with all the "gamesmanship" now expects a lead off price not a response of MSRP and invitation to call/come in.

weatherthedecision

Regardless, I think the OP detracted more potential customers than attracted. Venting is something you do to your buddies / wife at home, not over the internet to prospective buyers like myself.