Is the 6 speed really as good as PDK
07-01-2009, 07:45 AM
#16
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Newport Beach, CA and Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 4,333
Received 2,871 Likes
on
1,512 Posts
JK - I'm into my second 997. Both manuals.
The first was an 08 997.1 C2 which had a stiff gearshift that never loosened up. At 6,000 miles I asked Porsche to take a look and they decided a new gearbox was needed. It became really hard to change 1-2when cold.
The current car is a 997.2 C2S and it's much much better. Still not as as good as my 1973 Alfa GTV (which is seriously the best change you could imagine, lousy 2nd gear synchro notwithstanding) and not as good as many japanese cars. Have you driven a Miata / MX-5?
But, I also borrowed a demo 997.2 C2S with 3000 miles for 48 hours and that was better again. So I'm thinking once my new car breaks in it will be good. It only has 600km (whats that - 350 miles?) on it so far.
So have patience and I think you'll find it'll be fine.
The first was an 08 997.1 C2 which had a stiff gearshift that never loosened up. At 6,000 miles I asked Porsche to take a look and they decided a new gearbox was needed. It became really hard to change 1-2when cold.
The current car is a 997.2 C2S and it's much much better. Still not as as good as my 1973 Alfa GTV (which is seriously the best change you could imagine, lousy 2nd gear synchro notwithstanding) and not as good as many japanese cars. Have you driven a Miata / MX-5?
But, I also borrowed a demo 997.2 C2S with 3000 miles for 48 hours and that was better again. So I'm thinking once my new car breaks in it will be good. It only has 600km (whats that - 350 miles?) on it so far.
So have patience and I think you'll find it'll be fine.
07-01-2009, 08:07 AM
#17
Moderator
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
As I mentioned in my emails, you have to give both your car and yourself more time in the seat. The car overall loosens up and after you have 2k break-in miles on the odometer and can finally consciously and subconsciously drive the car without any limitations, then see. The last thing you want to do is change to the sport shifter - it's even notchier. Patience...
Also, to put your mind to ease, go for an extended test drive in a PDK. I think you'll find that it's a fantastic automatic. Yes, you can click the button or even move the shifter lever, but why bother. The computer is so good at downshifting when you would want to, and perfectly matches revs. And the shifts are buttery smooth that it's like you are driving a CVT. But it takes out the human factor - you doing that work to get the shifts just right. If what you are really after is just getting in the car and going and not having to think about shifting, then the PDK is a great thing. But if you want to be the one deciding when and how things are done in your car, then give yourself more time with this brand new not-yet-broken-in car.
Also, to put your mind to ease, go for an extended test drive in a PDK. I think you'll find that it's a fantastic automatic. Yes, you can click the button or even move the shifter lever, but why bother. The computer is so good at downshifting when you would want to, and perfectly matches revs. And the shifts are buttery smooth that it's like you are driving a CVT. But it takes out the human factor - you doing that work to get the shifts just right. If what you are really after is just getting in the car and going and not having to think about shifting, then the PDK is a great thing. But if you want to be the one deciding when and how things are done in your car, then give yourself more time with this brand new not-yet-broken-in car.
07-01-2009, 08:50 AM
#18
Racer
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Burlington, Ontario
Posts: 432
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Agree with rest of post though.
07-01-2009, 09:06 AM
#19
well put RonCT.
I have a sport shifter in an '07 C4S, which is stiff as hell when the car's cold, but starts to loosen us as the oils warm up. Try giving it a few revs while shifting, that'll help a lot.
I have a sport shifter in an '07 C4S, which is stiff as hell when the car's cold, but starts to loosen us as the oils warm up. Try giving it a few revs while shifting, that'll help a lot.
07-01-2009, 09:16 AM
#20
Instructor
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Midwest
Posts: 219
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think the 6 speed gearbox in the 997s (mine is a .l) is the best of the numerous stick shift cars I have owned incl 5 BMWs. It may not be the perceived "smoothest" but it is has the best mechanicallly precise feel and excellent clutch action. It does get hung up going into first occasionally ..annoying but that's about all. Its also a bit stiff when cold so I dbl. clutch upshift till it warms up completely.
Break your car in a bit more and get "at one" with your gearbox. BMWs are smooth shifting but so are Hondas, Acuras, etc. When you have more time with your Porsche, you will love its gearbox/clutch.
PDK..have not driven it. I am sure its great but not for me at this point in my sports car.
Break your car in a bit more and get "at one" with your gearbox. BMWs are smooth shifting but so are Hondas, Acuras, etc. When you have more time with your Porsche, you will love its gearbox/clutch.
PDK..have not driven it. I am sure its great but not for me at this point in my sports car.
07-01-2009, 09:40 AM
#21
To the OP, it sounds to me like you're trying to "power shift" your car. Slamming gears isn't what these cars are made for, and shifting faster than the next guy doesn't make you a better driver. Be smooth and deliberate with your shifts, you're not fighting for position at LeMans.
07-01-2009, 12:45 PM
#22
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 3,802
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Actually I am a "die hard", however, the PDK is so good that I compromised my extreme bias. This, so that my wife would drive the car more (even though she is competent with a 6 speed and can heel and toe) and share my enjoyment of Porsches. She is more of an around town driver than me, and the PDK suits her habits and would add to the frequency of driving. As reference point, she has done the Master's driving program.
07-01-2009, 01:01 PM
#23
Addict
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
I was a die hard 6 speed guy and I hated the Tips. But this new PDK is just amazing. My problem is that I am also a techie. As an engineer, i love any new technology I think is worth having. The PDK is that.
07-01-2009, 02:09 PM
#24
Instructor
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 176
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
07-01-2009, 02:11 PM
#25
Instructor
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 176
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
JK - I'm into my second 997. Both manuals.
The first was an 08 997.1 C2 which had a stiff gearshift that never loosened up. At 6,000 miles I asked Porsche to take a look and they decided a new gearbox was needed. It became really hard to change 1-2when cold.
The current car is a 997.2 C2S and it's much much better. Still not as as good as my 1973 Alfa GTV (which is seriously the best change you could imagine, lousy 2nd gear synchro notwithstanding) and not as good as many japanese cars. Have you driven a Miata / MX-5?
But, I also borrowed a demo 997.2 C2S with 3000 miles for 48 hours and that was better again. So I'm thinking once my new car breaks in it will be good. It only has 600km (whats that - 350 miles?) on it so far.
So have patience and I think you'll find it'll be fine.
The first was an 08 997.1 C2 which had a stiff gearshift that never loosened up. At 6,000 miles I asked Porsche to take a look and they decided a new gearbox was needed. It became really hard to change 1-2when cold.
The current car is a 997.2 C2S and it's much much better. Still not as as good as my 1973 Alfa GTV (which is seriously the best change you could imagine, lousy 2nd gear synchro notwithstanding) and not as good as many japanese cars. Have you driven a Miata / MX-5?
But, I also borrowed a demo 997.2 C2S with 3000 miles for 48 hours and that was better again. So I'm thinking once my new car breaks in it will be good. It only has 600km (whats that - 350 miles?) on it so far.
So have patience and I think you'll find it'll be fine.
07-01-2009, 02:15 PM
#26
Instructor
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 176
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As I mentioned in my emails, you have to give both your car and yourself more time in the seat. The car overall loosens up and after you have 2k break-in miles on the odometer and can finally consciously and subconsciously drive the car without any limitations, then see. The last thing you want to do is change to the sport shifter - it's even notchier. Patience...
Also, to put your mind to ease, go for an extended test drive in a PDK. I think you'll find that it's a fantastic automatic. Yes, you can click the button or even move the shifter lever, but why bother. The computer is so good at downshifting when you would want to, and perfectly matches revs. And the shifts are buttery smooth that it's like you are driving a CVT. But it takes out the human factor - you doing that work to get the shifts just right. If what you are really after is just getting in the car and going and not having to think about shifting, then the PDK is a great thing. But if you want to be the one deciding when and how things are done in your car, then give yourself more time with this brand new not-yet-broken-in car.
Also, to put your mind to ease, go for an extended test drive in a PDK. I think you'll find that it's a fantastic automatic. Yes, you can click the button or even move the shifter lever, but why bother. The computer is so good at downshifting when you would want to, and perfectly matches revs. And the shifts are buttery smooth that it's like you are driving a CVT. But it takes out the human factor - you doing that work to get the shifts just right. If what you are really after is just getting in the car and going and not having to think about shifting, then the PDK is a great thing. But if you want to be the one deciding when and how things are done in your car, then give yourself more time with this brand new not-yet-broken-in car.
I think once she is broken in, I will re evaluate at 2000 mile and see where I stand. The car has 700 miles now, and maybe she is loosening up? I am confident that this machine is being broken in the right way, so now it's jsut time and experience. And i do not mind learning techniques to make me a better drive. The car gets so many looks, and compliments, it's a shame I have this one hang up. But maybe its okay too. because it will force me to really get to know the gearbox. And understand the car even better. So i am looking at this as a positive after the dealership experience today. They build em this way for a reason... I need to find out why and drive it to the max once i can.
07-01-2009, 05:02 PM
#27
Burning Brakes
The factory SSK equipped 6 speed MT in my 2008 C2S is very good but I don't agree that Porsche's manual gearboxes are the best in the business. The shifting in both of my old Honda S2000's was better by a clear margin. The clutch is a different story, but the shifting was better.
Is the 6 speed as good as the PDK? My answer is yes and no.
The PDK is an amazing gearbox and I'm certain that 99.9% of drivers would be quicker around 99.9% of tracks in a similarly equipped car with a PDK than they would with a standard tranny. And I'm also certain that the PDK is a much better "daily driver" transmission.
But to some, myself included, it's just not the end all be all that it is to others. There's something visceral about the skill, effort, and practice inherent in a properly executed up shift or heel/toe downshift that the PDK will never be able to replicate.
I'm not Lewis Hamilton and I never will be. So I'll continue to trade the incremental pico second in acceleration and hypothetical track time for the joy of actually driving the car myself.
Is the 6 speed as good as the PDK? My answer is yes and no.
The PDK is an amazing gearbox and I'm certain that 99.9% of drivers would be quicker around 99.9% of tracks in a similarly equipped car with a PDK than they would with a standard tranny. And I'm also certain that the PDK is a much better "daily driver" transmission.
But to some, myself included, it's just not the end all be all that it is to others. There's something visceral about the skill, effort, and practice inherent in a properly executed up shift or heel/toe downshift that the PDK will never be able to replicate.
I'm not Lewis Hamilton and I never will be. So I'll continue to trade the incremental pico second in acceleration and hypothetical track time for the joy of actually driving the car myself.
07-01-2009, 07:01 PM
#29
Nordschleife Master
Ron, I think you are right. I visited the dealer today to upgrade my tail lights (they were foggy ) and what a great experience there. The techs and service advisors know what they are talking about and are competient. They agreed with the advice you and the forum have given me.
I think once she is broken in, I will re evaluate at 2000 mile and see where I stand. The car has 700 miles now, and maybe she is loosening up? I am confident that this machine is being broken in the right way, so now it's jsut time and experience. And i do not mind learning techniques to make me a better drive. The car gets so many looks, and compliments, it's a shame I have this one hang up. But maybe its okay too. because it will force me to really get to know the gearbox. And understand the car even better. So i am looking at this as a positive after the dealership experience today. They build em this way for a reason... I need to find out why and drive it to the max once i can.
I think once she is broken in, I will re evaluate at 2000 mile and see where I stand. The car has 700 miles now, and maybe she is loosening up? I am confident that this machine is being broken in the right way, so now it's jsut time and experience. And i do not mind learning techniques to make me a better drive. The car gets so many looks, and compliments, it's a shame I have this one hang up. But maybe its okay too. because it will force me to really get to know the gearbox. And understand the car even better. So i am looking at this as a positive after the dealership experience today. They build em this way for a reason... I need to find out why and drive it to the max once i can.
07-01-2009, 07:05 PM
#30
Nordschleife Master
Re. manual shifting delays... you are off by about 11 orders of magnitude. As a minimum you are slower on the order of 100s of ms, a galactic distance to picoseconds.
