Need user feedback on 911 AWD usefulness in non snowy conditions
07-03-2009, 11:21 AM
#31
Nordschleife Master
Lots of good info there Ron
But I do have to add. The real benefit of AWD for me has been when I have lost control of the car at the Track. AWD when it kicks in saves your ***. If I were in a RWD car I would have run out of pavement or caused a huge fish tail I couldn't get out of and spun. The fronts kick in so fast it just gets you pointed and straightened out very quickly with out having to use much steering input at all. RWD doesn't do that.
Granted if I didn't care about bringing the car back home I would drive a RWD and let the *** hang out but I can't afford to replace the car I have and AWD has saved me and the car numerous times.
But I do have to add. The real benefit of AWD for me has been when I have lost control of the car at the Track. AWD when it kicks in saves your ***. If I were in a RWD car I would have run out of pavement or caused a huge fish tail I couldn't get out of and spun. The fronts kick in so fast it just gets you pointed and straightened out very quickly with out having to use much steering input at all. RWD doesn't do that.
Granted if I didn't care about bringing the car back home I would drive a RWD and let the *** hang out but I can't afford to replace the car I have and AWD has saved me and the car numerous times.
07-03-2009, 11:33 AM
#32
Still plays with cars.
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On a wet track, AWD is outstanding. The additional weight of the AWD system is forgotten and all things being equal, a RWD 2S will not be able to stay on the same lap as the AWD car.
That being the case, one may also extrapolate an extra margin of security on any slippery surface, whether rain, sand, dust etc.
That being the case, one may also extrapolate an extra margin of security on any slippery surface, whether rain, sand, dust etc.
07-03-2009, 01:16 PM
#33
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07-03-2009, 03:47 PM
#34
On a wet track, AWD is outstanding. The additional weight of the AWD system is forgotten and all things being equal, a RWD 2S will not be able to stay on the same lap as the AWD car.
That being the case, one may also extrapolate an extra margin of security on any slippery surface, whether rain, sand, dust etc.
That being the case, one may also extrapolate an extra margin of security on any slippery surface, whether rain, sand, dust etc.
Must have a double!
07-03-2009, 06:36 PM
#35
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The only other time I felt the use of AWD was when I was first in Europe with the car and was doing Mountain pass switchbacks in the rain at 40 degrees, you could feel the front pulling you out of the corners. Also on the Nurburgring, in the rain I could feel it helping out. If I lived in a non-snow climate I would buy a 2wd if I had to do it again:-)
07-08-2009, 10:53 PM
#36
I'm pulling from memory on all of this so forgive me if some of this is a bit off. But I've been following Porsche since I was a kid and I believe this is more or less accurate.
Years ago the 911 was a handful with snap oversteer. As the cars became more "main stream" and were desired and then purchased by non-enthusiast drivers, Porsche realized they might want to create something that would be easier and safer for the less experienced driver to be able to handle. I don't mean this in any negative way, just that there were those PCA types that knew how to driver a 911 from years of DE, then there were new comers to the brand that were every bit as much a fan of Porsche, but didn't have the driving skill.
Also, when they started putting tons of HP into the turbo cars, they realized that for some drivers you'd want to turn the front wheels as well as the rears to avoid power induced oversteer (burn out resulting in a spin and crash). The 964 Turbo was the last of a breed of forced induction rear wheel drive - and many love that car because it is RWD. 993 and beyond the Turbos probably became the "ultimate" car for those wanting the most HP they could possibly get in a Porsche. That is until the GT2 came along. One would have to ask "If AWD was the superior power delivery system, why would the ultimate Porsches have RWD (GT2 and CGT)?"
Then there's the concept of people buying a Porsche and driving it year round. So, AWD clearly is a benefit to those that put snow tires on and drive no matter what the weather.
Another point to look at is that until the current C4 and C4S came along, the C2 / C2S always beat the AWD version around the Ring and by a big margin. The big news a few years ago from Porsche and the press was that finally, they created an AWD version of the car that didn't lose time to the C2S around the track. So the good news is that today you don't necessarily lose time around a very long and complicated track (straights, lots of turns, etc.) by going with AWD.
So the point in all of this is that AWD is not necessarily a penalty, nor is it a benefit in typical weather, meaning not snow. The RWD version is just as quick perhaps because it's more about the tires than whether the front wheels are turning on their own or with power. If you don't have grip, a spinning front isn't going to do much for you.
As most have stated, the nice things about RWD include that the car is lighter, has more front trunk space, is less complex, requires less maintenance / less costly to repair, provides crisper steering inputs, and is substantially less expensive.
Years ago the 911 was a handful with snap oversteer. As the cars became more "main stream" and were desired and then purchased by non-enthusiast drivers, Porsche realized they might want to create something that would be easier and safer for the less experienced driver to be able to handle. I don't mean this in any negative way, just that there were those PCA types that knew how to driver a 911 from years of DE, then there were new comers to the brand that were every bit as much a fan of Porsche, but didn't have the driving skill.
Also, when they started putting tons of HP into the turbo cars, they realized that for some drivers you'd want to turn the front wheels as well as the rears to avoid power induced oversteer (burn out resulting in a spin and crash). The 964 Turbo was the last of a breed of forced induction rear wheel drive - and many love that car because it is RWD. 993 and beyond the Turbos probably became the "ultimate" car for those wanting the most HP they could possibly get in a Porsche. That is until the GT2 came along. One would have to ask "If AWD was the superior power delivery system, why would the ultimate Porsches have RWD (GT2 and CGT)?"
Then there's the concept of people buying a Porsche and driving it year round. So, AWD clearly is a benefit to those that put snow tires on and drive no matter what the weather.
Another point to look at is that until the current C4 and C4S came along, the C2 / C2S always beat the AWD version around the Ring and by a big margin. The big news a few years ago from Porsche and the press was that finally, they created an AWD version of the car that didn't lose time to the C2S around the track. So the good news is that today you don't necessarily lose time around a very long and complicated track (straights, lots of turns, etc.) by going with AWD.
So the point in all of this is that AWD is not necessarily a penalty, nor is it a benefit in typical weather, meaning not snow. The RWD version is just as quick perhaps because it's more about the tires than whether the front wheels are turning on their own or with power. If you don't have grip, a spinning front isn't going to do much for you.
As most have stated, the nice things about RWD include that the car is lighter, has more front trunk space, is less complex, requires less maintenance / less costly to repair, provides crisper steering inputs, and is substantially less expensive.
