Ordering C4S - questions
06-03-2009 | 11:01 PM
#16
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From: Boston, MA
Nugget, thanks for the input. I get what you're saying, but you cannot deny that AWD creates a handling advantage in less then optimal situations. In warm sunny dry and clear conditions, the AWD is at a disadvantage, but if rain or leaves hit the road, how can an AWD not help? There is a reason that when the Audi Quattro came into the rally scene it dominated all the races, which were otherwise run by 2WD cars.
Macster, I'm going to get in writing that the car will be a MY2010, or otherwise I will have no obligation to buy. Most dealers want a non-refundable deposit of $5k to order the car for me, which isn't unreasonable. What you said about the aerodynamics of the car make complete sense, and it's one of the reasons why I'm usually somewhat hesitant about playing around with any body work. I assumed that adding an authentic Porsche kit would allow for a tested and proven shape, but I can see your point.
That said, if anyone could throw up some pics of the following, I would be forever indebted. Yellow seatbelts, yellow instrument dials, yellow contrast stitching, or the black / stone grey two tone full leather interior.
Macster, I'm going to get in writing that the car will be a MY2010, or otherwise I will have no obligation to buy. Most dealers want a non-refundable deposit of $5k to order the car for me, which isn't unreasonable. What you said about the aerodynamics of the car make complete sense, and it's one of the reasons why I'm usually somewhat hesitant about playing around with any body work. I assumed that adding an authentic Porsche kit would allow for a tested and proven shape, but I can see your point.
That said, if anyone could throw up some pics of the following, I would be forever indebted. Yellow seatbelts, yellow instrument dials, yellow contrast stitching, or the black / stone grey two tone full leather interior.
06-03-2009 | 11:09 PM
#17
Race Director
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From: Centerton, AR
AWD ok in some cases where engine HP too much and can overcome...
Nugget, thanks for the input. I get what you're saying, but you cannot deny that AWD creates a handling advantage in less then optimal situations. In warm sunny dry and clear conditions, the AWD is at a disadvantage, but if rain or leaves hit the road, how can an AWD not help? There is a reason that when the Audi Quattro came into the rally scene it dominated all the races, which were otherwise run by 2WD cars.
That said, if anyone could throw up some pics of the following, I would be forever indebted. Yellow seatbelts, yellow instrument dials, yellow contrast stitching, or the black / stone grey two tone full leather interior.
That said, if anyone could throw up some pics of the following, I would be forever indebted. Yellow seatbelts, yellow instrument dials, yellow contrast stitching, or the black / stone grey two tone full leather interior.
All cars though have the same number of tires that steer and brake.
My experience in living in wintery areas for a while is it ain't the starting that's a problem it is the slowing, stopping, and turning. In this regard FWD, AWD, RWD, 4WD all in the same boat.
AWD adds weight, complexity, introduces more drivetrain losses, negatively affects gas mileage, emissions, costs more to buy, just one more thing to go wrong eventually, and changes the handling/steering characteristics of the car.
While AWD is not always wrong to have, I'd be darn sure I needed its benefits enough to outweigh its negatives.
Sincerely,
Macster.
06-03-2009 | 11:12 PM
#18
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Jan 2008
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From: Little Rock
I am no expert. I bought my C4S because it had everything else I wanted: under 10,000 miles, CPO, sport seats, painted seatbacks and center console, X51, aero and GT3RS wheels. I may never track it but it is a lot of fun on wet or dry pavement, and it handles great.
I have been very happy with my car and receive nothing but compliments. I bought it second hand but the depreciation has been dramatic. I wonder if a stripper turbo would not hold its value better. I understand the standard package on the turbo includes full leather which my car does not have.
I have been very happy with my car and receive nothing but compliments. I bought it second hand but the depreciation has been dramatic. I wonder if a stripper turbo would not hold its value better. I understand the standard package on the turbo includes full leather which my car does not have.
06-03-2009 | 11:45 PM
#20
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Have you seen the yellow dials, in various lights? Like red, sounds good but loses something in the execution.
I would do black dials (022?) and black or natural gray (charcoal) interior.
But, I am only offering this opinion because you asked for it. Everyone's taste is different and there is no right or wrong.
06-04-2009 | 12:04 AM
#21
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From: Boston, MA
To be honest, I've actually never seen a black / grey interior in person which is why I was asking for some pictures. I was going to stop by another dealer on Friday and see if they had any I could take a look at. I definitely do not want an all black interior, and thought it would be nice to have a few different shades instead of just an all grey or something. The black and the stone grey looked close enough in the pictures online where it would create a subtle but noticeable variation.
I did see the yellow dials in person, and while they looked fine in the situation I saw them in, I could definitely see them becoming an issue in certain lights - then again, just about any color could become an issue in a particular light.
I definitely appreciate the input tho, it's exactly what I'm looking for.
I did see the yellow dials in person, and while they looked fine in the situation I saw them in, I could definitely see them becoming an issue in certain lights - then again, just about any color could become an issue in a particular light.
I definitely appreciate the input tho, it's exactly what I'm looking for.
06-04-2009 | 12:34 AM
#22
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From: I'm not sell'n anythang... much..
Have you looked at that thing? Poor lil thang won't be able to withstand that much down force my friend. 
Ps. at speed the air stream raises enough to justify the rear spoiler to 'dip' back in, so it can sip air better at speed. Look at the direction of the vents on the 997 vs 996. They must have figured out that the air 'rolls' back into the spoiler, rather then attempting forced induction? Just a guess.
Ps. at speed the air stream raises enough to justify the rear spoiler to 'dip' back in, so it can sip air better at speed. Look at the direction of the vents on the 997 vs 996. They must have figured out that the air 'rolls' back into the spoiler, rather then attempting forced induction? Just a guess.
06-04-2009 | 12:58 AM
#23
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I have to jump in here with Poque,--tying in some yellow elements into the cockpit can be a bit too much. Lighter belts only get dirty over time and all of those sorts of things add to busy-ness to a cockpit that may or may not add what you're looking for. (Ditto for yellow stitching). Do you REALLY want yellow dials?
I'm not sure that you can get the black and natural grey mix because you're talking about two different types of leather,--the black is regular stuff, and the natural grey is much higher quality, being vat died and chosen from the higher quality hides. If you do opt for contrasting stitching then you REALLY have to do your homework on interior pieces, to make sure that what you THINK you're getting in leather is what you wind up with. For example, you have to order a center console piece with the model embossed on it to get the stitching on either side to match the stitching that is found forward on the console. Over the various model years, Porsche continues to flip-flop over interior leather bits here and there, often making some pieces terribly expensive (e.g., door openers, today). Be sure and locate that interior explosive drawing that shows the bits so that you know specifically what comes in leather and how it is stitched. No salesman can really help you there, because this stuff changes so much from Zuffenhausen, that they can't possibly keep up with it all.
I'm not sure that you can get the black and natural grey mix because you're talking about two different types of leather,--the black is regular stuff, and the natural grey is much higher quality, being vat died and chosen from the higher quality hides. If you do opt for contrasting stitching then you REALLY have to do your homework on interior pieces, to make sure that what you THINK you're getting in leather is what you wind up with. For example, you have to order a center console piece with the model embossed on it to get the stitching on either side to match the stitching that is found forward on the console. Over the various model years, Porsche continues to flip-flop over interior leather bits here and there, often making some pieces terribly expensive (e.g., door openers, today). Be sure and locate that interior explosive drawing that shows the bits so that you know specifically what comes in leather and how it is stitched. No salesman can really help you there, because this stuff changes so much from Zuffenhausen, that they can't possibly keep up with it all.
06-04-2009 | 01:13 AM
#24
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From: Boston, MA
Edgy, thanks for the input. The option I was looking for, as far as the two tone, was BK - Black / Stone Grey, right out of the ordering guide. The more I think about it, the less I like the idea of the yellow belt. I think it may be a little too over the top. Stitching on the seat, as I just found out, is $1100, and probably going to get dirty quickly if in yellow. Because of that, I was thinking of perhaps just doing contrast stitching on the dash, around the PCM (I guess you call that lower dash) and on the doors (not handles, just near the bottom of windows). I'm shifter will be in carbon, as will the hand brake, and and I haven't decided on the center console yet (probably leave stock).
I hate things that don't have color in them, and aside from the calipers on the outside, this car will be completely black and white. That is why I think the dials and a little stitching would look nice - just add a touch of color.
I hate things that don't have color in them, and aside from the calipers on the outside, this car will be completely black and white. That is why I think the dials and a little stitching would look nice - just add a touch of color.
06-04-2009 | 01:53 PM
#25
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06-04-2009 | 02:36 PM
#26
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Thanks for the replies everyone. I am well aware of the fact that the adding the AWD and the PDK ads some weight, which is why I am trying to keep this car as light as possible. It's not only for the fact that I'd like to track it one or two times a month, but the fact that shaving a few lbs can help at the pump too.
That said, I was able to take a peak at a few order forms for the cars, which states the model year as 2010 for the July and August builds.
As for the leather, I talked to a few Porsche mechanics and they told me that although they didn't know how much full leather added to the weight, the carpet (including soundproofing) alone added well over 100lbs to the car. Whether or not this is true, I have no idea, but they seemed rather competent.
I was curious if there was a CT3 type bumper for the front that wasn't just looks - that actually provided increased airflow. I was also wondering if there was a rear spoiler that retained the automatic movement of the spoiler but allowed for downforce to be created as well.
So far, this is what I have, please feel free to comment on if you think I should add or remove anything (trim, different wheels or steering wheel, leather, paint, etc):
Carrera White - B4
Black / Stone Grey Interior - BK
Self Dimming Mirrors - 267
Rear Window Wiper - 425
Side Skirts in Painted Exterior Color - XAJ
Park Assist System - 635
Dynamic Cornering Lights - 603
Sports Exhaust System - 176
Sports Chrono Package Plus - 640
PASM Sports Suspension - 030
Porsche Ceramic Composite Brake (PCCB) - 450
7-speed Porsche Doppelkupplung (PDK) - 250
19" Turbo Wheel - 404
Sport Chrono Timer Display Painted Speed Yellow - CGH
Instrument dials in Speed Yellow - XFH
Sport Bucket Seats - P03
Porsche Crest in Headrest - XSC
3-Spoke PDK Multifunction Steering Wheel in in Smooth Leather - 844
Electronic Logbook - 641
XM Radio - 686
Universal Audio Interface - 870
BOSE High End Sound Package - 680
Bluetooth Interface for Mobile Phone - 619
PCM Voice Control - 671
Navigation Module for PCM - 672
Total Price = 129,040
That said, I was able to take a peak at a few order forms for the cars, which states the model year as 2010 for the July and August builds.
As for the leather, I talked to a few Porsche mechanics and they told me that although they didn't know how much full leather added to the weight, the carpet (including soundproofing) alone added well over 100lbs to the car. Whether or not this is true, I have no idea, but they seemed rather competent.
I was curious if there was a CT3 type bumper for the front that wasn't just looks - that actually provided increased airflow. I was also wondering if there was a rear spoiler that retained the automatic movement of the spoiler but allowed for downforce to be created as well.
So far, this is what I have, please feel free to comment on if you think I should add or remove anything (trim, different wheels or steering wheel, leather, paint, etc):
Carrera White - B4
Black / Stone Grey Interior - BK
Self Dimming Mirrors - 267
Rear Window Wiper - 425
Side Skirts in Painted Exterior Color - XAJ
Park Assist System - 635
Dynamic Cornering Lights - 603
Sports Exhaust System - 176
Sports Chrono Package Plus - 640
PASM Sports Suspension - 030
Porsche Ceramic Composite Brake (PCCB) - 450
7-speed Porsche Doppelkupplung (PDK) - 250
19" Turbo Wheel - 404
Sport Chrono Timer Display Painted Speed Yellow - CGH
Instrument dials in Speed Yellow - XFH
Sport Bucket Seats - P03
Porsche Crest in Headrest - XSC
3-Spoke PDK Multifunction Steering Wheel in in Smooth Leather - 844
Electronic Logbook - 641
XM Radio - 686
Universal Audio Interface - 870
BOSE High End Sound Package - 680
Bluetooth Interface for Mobile Phone - 619
PCM Voice Control - 671
Navigation Module for PCM - 672
Total Price = 129,040
Add headlight cleaner painted exterior color. I'm not a fan of the silver headlight cleaners on other than silver cars.
Lose the Rear Window Wiper, Park Assist, Dynamic Cornering Lights and Multi-Function Steering Wheel.
Rear Window Wiper: ruins the car's look, don't need it in the rain and if it's snowing hard enough to need it, you probably shouldn't be driving.
Park Assist: It's not that big of a car to park.
Dynamic Cornering Lights: marginal benefits - how do 99% of the other drivers manage without them - and just another gizmo to break. I'm talking from experience with a Cayenne.
Multi-Function Steering Wheel - you've got pdk and voice controlled PCM; if you can simultaneously chew gum and drive, you can handle the occasional reach over to adjust volume.
Also, PCCBs are neat, but I don't think they are almost $9k neat. Less unsprung weight is great, but completely lost on me. I think there are very few 911 drivers that can actually exploit the weight benefits of PCCBs. And, although they may last forever, you need to buy a crap load of iron rotors and pads before you get a ROI on the PCCBs. (BTW, my intent is not to start a long discussion on the benefits/drawbacks of PCCBs, just my opinion.)
Save your money on these items and buy another daily driver.
Last edited by 9elf S; 06-04-2009 at 04:42 PM.
06-04-2009 | 05:16 PM
#29
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From: Montreal
Cam - read my review of a 997.2 C4S on track in this forum. Mine is AWD because in Montreal we get real snow and at my country home it is the difference between making it up the hill or not.
I also bought the winter wheel and tire package.
I would skip the PCCB and save a lot of money. Search and yoou will see that those who track the car frequently have expensive issues. Mine has the ordinary brakes which stood up to lapping without complaint.
I have the dynamic lights and would not buy them again. Rear wiper is a waste of omney. The electric heater deals with snow and rain is a non issue.
Best,
I also bought the winter wheel and tire package.
I would skip the PCCB and save a lot of money. Search and yoou will see that those who track the car frequently have expensive issues. Mine has the ordinary brakes which stood up to lapping without complaint.
I have the dynamic lights and would not buy them again. Rear wiper is a waste of omney. The electric heater deals with snow and rain is a non issue.
Best,
06-04-2009 | 05:52 PM
#30
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From: Back in the OC
Have you looked at that thing? Poor lil thang won't be able to withstand that much down force my friend.
Ps. at speed the air stream raises enough to justify the rear spoiler to 'dip' back in, so it can sip air better at speed. Look at the direction of the vents on the 997 vs 996. They must have figured out that the air 'rolls' back into the spoiler, rather then attempting forced induction? Just a guess.
Ps. at speed the air stream raises enough to justify the rear spoiler to 'dip' back in, so it can sip air better at speed. Look at the direction of the vents on the 997 vs 996. They must have figured out that the air 'rolls' back into the spoiler, rather then attempting forced induction? Just a guess.
Oh boy.
Where's that fail sign when you need it, I know I put it somewhere.
Sorry, but it's my duty to correct misinformation. The owner's manual is correct.
That is all. Carry on.