jhbrennan

From what I've heard, PAG is strictly enforcing core engine exchanges - 3.6 for a 3.6, 3.8 for 3.8, etc. Not sure how they'd handle a request for an X51. No longer can you get a 3.8 exchange for a 3.6 core.

stubenhocker

If you can afford to live in Hillsborough, I wouldn't sweat this nickle and dime stuff! Just don't patronize them going forward and don't lose any sleep pver the small stuff. Now for a poor guy like me this would be a big issue...

997, esq

I don't know, stubenhocker. As my income has gone up, I have become no more tolerant of getting screwed. It is true that you can spend more than $10K of your time fighting something like this. I tend to fight anyway. Would be different if the car didn't fail in the dealer's hands.

useridchallenged

$10k is $10k no matter where you live or what you do - it's all hard-earned whether the money was earned in the past, present or future.

You could apply the same logic to Porsche, as one of the wealthiest (if not the wealthiest) automaker in the world, that they shouldn't sweat this nickel and dime stuff either...

+1

As they say, "principles are expensive."

brendo

^ this gets my vote for ignorant post of the week

userid - I agree with many other comments that you're being very measured in your reactions here, including this ding-dong comment...

one thing to think about: it may be the case that PCNA has less willingness to make amends in this situation because they view it as the dealer's issue. I'm completely speculating, but it may be the case that Porsche does not view the dealer as being blameless here. it's tough to believe that you'll get full visibility into that. there is a hierarchy of dealers in PCNA's mind and it's hard to know where these guys stand. i'd disintermediate the dealer and focus on PCNA's goodwill directly towards you. Right now, PCNA may have the viewpoint that they are being asked to provide goodwill toward the dealer, whose responsibility it is to remedy this in their eyes.

put another way, if i am porsche, why the hell am i "standing behind" a product that my dealer blew up? i have a great product - let my dealer fix his own mistake ! of course, you get caught in the middle while this works it's way out but this perspective may be useful in how you position your issue.

my 2 cents,

b

PogueMoHone

^ my vote, for "post of the year" Great insight!

boolala

I don't believe this for one minute.

First of all why did Porsche redesign the pump in the first place? Ever wonder about that? Why did they soon start putting in larger pumps? They must have gotten feedback from dealers on early failures to justify doing this. They obviously redesigned a more robust oil pump.

What evidence is there that the dealer did anything wrong? No debris was found in the pump. Can you come up with any senario where, what the dealer did resulted in the failure of the pump, either as a primary or secondary event and, more to the point, can you prove it?

911rox

You have a very valid point but in answering your final point, it is Porsche that is being judged and copping the bad wrap... Not the dealer and for this reason they should really care and force action upon the dealer... It is their brand that is incurring the harm... Not the dealer as they haven't even been named... In any case, the car should be much sturdier than it has proven to be in this situation and shouldn't have suffered the failure it has...

BobbyB

A redesign is not always indicative of massive failures-Most hope for a redesign with each new model, it's one of the things that makes that new model attractive to buy. If we didn't believe we're getting a better product than before, would we buy? -the old design pump was thought to have been better than what was offered prior. Cross your fingers, it's man made. It's mechanical - these things break


The OP is really caught in the middle and I'm more surprised at the dealers attitude vs that of Porsche. Porsche's contract via the warranty is over.....They are under no obligation to do anything. Would it be nice if Porsche split the cost or provided a new motor at cost? Yes. Do they care? Maybe...losing a sale here or there doesn't seem to have really affected Porsche since the late 90's (not inclusive of the current downturn in the economy). It's the dealer who I see as the first line of opposition as the engine failed while in their care. Good will is a two way street, as the OP has given this dealer his repeat business. It seems that the dealer could show his good will by an offer of free or reduced labor prices if the OP pays for parts. Both Porsche and the dealer would benefit from a little good will as I would think PGA will benefit form more customers like the OP.

cello

^ I agree that the OP is caught in the middle. And as such, I think useridchallenged needs to work both ends against the middle.

Given the circumstances presented here, and from a 'practical' not 'principle' perspective; I would try to get the Dealer to 'donate' the labor at a reduced rate. And I would try to get Porsche to 'donate' the parts at a reduced rate. I think the engine failure (there is no other phrase) should be covered fully by someone - but as the OP has astutely noted - it prob will not happen in these times.

At bottom line, if you can limit your exposure to 40% or less of the total cost of the repair or replacement, and have fixed what you want fixed/or replaced what you want replaced, that is a 'win' in these unusual circumstances.

In other days, someone would have stepped up. Probably not today. I have a trusted mechanic I use who has become a friend. He is Porsche certified (amongst other high end marques) and has worked in a Dealership. When I told him I was going to buy Porsche his exact words were "they are not standing behind their cars like they used to. Be careful and always hold a warranty." He explained he was presently working on someones 996 which had a 'd-chunk' failure, someone who had owned five Porsches before the current one, someone who was a president of a local PCA Chapter, and someone who was 'just out of warranty'; and that the PCNA had denied the claim and stuck to their decision - No 'goodwill'.

Now there are other stories where Porsche did step up. The point hereof is that the pendulum seems to be moving more toward 'out of warranty out of luck' presently. Something to keep in mind come extended warranty decision time.

Carrera Mike

This is the part I dont understand... if the car was under the custody of the dealership when that happened, test driving it for the worked they performed,(didnt they lower the engine to access all the mentioned repairs?) shouldnt they be the one shouldering all these repairs?

useridchallenged

After having visited the dealer and spent time with the service advisor and head mechanic, I don't believe the dealer really went inside of the engine itself (perhaps replacing the IMS flange seal is as close as they got).

However, they drove on a blown engine for what appears now to be 10 miles (not 5-7) while the engine was running rough. This, to my mind, is highly questionable judgment on the tech's part. Wouldn't you at least pull over and inspect the car instead of continuing on? At least call the mechanic that did the work as to what to do next?

There was plenty of loose metal bits from the variocam, chain, and oil scavenging pump in the engine during those 10 miles, potentially wreaking further damage to the engine. So who's on the hook to tear down the entire engine to make sure no bits of metal are left behind and that no further damage occured? How can we begin to trust that motor otherwise?

This is becoming at least one of several key issues to my mind in this case.

Quadcammer

I have a couple thoughts:

1. People seem to think that porsche cares about this one customer...they don't. The dealer? maybe they do, but doubtful. Sadly, Porsche is no longer Hans and Lars with the body panel hammer perfecting a fender curve. They are a corporation that makes sedans and suvs, and outsources parts and operations. Unless they've seen a rash of these failures, I highly doubt they are going to be in a big hurry to help this guy out.

2. You gotta pay to play. Sometimes you have good luck, and sometimes you have bad luck. Unless there is enough evidence to show that the dealer screwed up the repair (which I doubt), you are sadly holding the bag. If the dealer gives you the motor at cost (which I think is a fair compromise if they include some reduced labor costs), I don't think there is much else you can say about it.

3. Yes, 10k is going to hurt and its going to hurt a lot. Then again, if you think about how much you lost in depreciation, it would probably hurt too. That said, once you've paid the 10k or whatever, and you are back enjoying your car, you'll get over it, unless the entire car is an exercise in cost benefit analysis (which it shouldn't be).

its a crappy situation, but ultimately, you will have a car with a brand new engine that you can enjoy for another 70k miles

hikejohn

As a potential first time Porsche buyer this tread gives me alot to think about...first that the failure occured...second I can't believe that Porsche hasn't seen this issue before and thus should be able guide the owner and dealer as to the best course of action and lastly to help when this type of problem arises....or is the true message that in today's world 70K miles isn't a surprising life expectancy for this engine...keep in mind in recent years Porsche was working on the "improved" 997.2 engine...perhaps one of their design/business goals was to help minimize this type of failure...IMS/RMS, etc

Quadcammer

I don't think Porsche is sending the message that 70k miles is an unsurprising life for the engine, but rather that sometimes sh*t happens and parts break.