Caughtacab911

Maybe I'm the only one who didn't know this, but...

Yesterday while shooting the breeze with a sales rep and a few others at my local dealer, I noticed that the resident Goldmeister mechanic was also hanging out in the showroom, joining in our conversation and basically just passing the time. Now we know all too well how s-l-o-w the sales side of things is these days, but it's also true on the service side. He had nothing to work on on a Friday morning.

I spoke to him for a moment on the side and said, "Well at least you're not on commission like these guys." He replied, "Actually I am. I get paid according to my billable hours. In other words, I'm not making anything right now."

Is this standard practice among all Porsche dealerships? Other brands? I had no idea that these guys were feeling the slump just as much as the salespeople.

Gene
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05 911 C2S cabriolet, arctic silver/black
01 MB E320 4Matic wagon
08 Audi A3 3.2 = wife's ride

mjsporsche

Actually, most mechanics are paid on hours billed (usually based on "book" hours). So, if there are no ROs to be worked on, there is no pay. Keep in mind that on a good day, many times they are paid for book hours that exceed (sometimes by a lot) the actual hours. An 8 hour day could yield 12-16 hours of pay if they are real good and know the shortcuts to getting QUALITY work done.

hikejohn

Drives me nuts that Dealers...all of them provide an number of hours to do the work...which most skilled guys can beat...and then pocket the difference; never did seem fair to me. I would rather pay for the time worked, if it takes longer then fine...if it takes less fine, but charging customers for time not worked bothers me....but guess that is the way things are

Coochas

So when business is down the mechanics are in a dry sump? Oh, I mean dry slump.

abe

Not only is the above true for MB, but the guy who does the paperwork...the service attendants, also makes xtra money based on the what the bill is. Everyone has the incentive to make that bill as high
as possible. In the long run this can also be counter productive because who wants to get charged for a $400+ oil change when you can DIY or give the work to a reputable independent mechanic at a fraction of the cost. They might get you the first time...but not the second. I have a friend who fixes Jaguars who is very busy...while his friends at the dealership are crying that they have no work. On Saturdays those guys come to his shop to help him out.
abe

Sadiq

Haha... this situation looks like the collapse of big law firms too while many small law firms continue to thrive. The economy is now truly beginning to punish bad business models that were able to get away with it when the economy was good.

jcnesq

A story about my dealer mechanic (and long time buddy) is the service manager calling him at 11:00am and asking what time in the afternoon he estimated he would be done with three cars, all of which needed the engines dropped for whatever needed fixin. His answer was they are all done! He is the consummate Porsche mechanic, and if he can accomplish that and get paid well for it, more power to him. I tend to be a bottom line guy - if the bottom line is within a reasonable ballpark, then I don't worry about details, and don't begrudge someone who can do a first class job faster than the next guy.

mjsporsche

+1...well said.

Dealerships need to be profitable and the service department (fixed operations) is the life line to their existance. It cost mucho real $$$ to run a 1st class store and without a dealership body, there would be no Porsche for us to drive. So, let them earn their money (lots of warranty work!) and survive. Just cut ME a break when I am there for service!!

bbrc76

I have worked at 5 or 6 dealers - all paid mechanics "on commission" based on book time. And it was common for the experienced mechanics to cover 50 to 60 hours of work, based on book time, in a 40 hour work week. This practice is also common in body shops.

Likemystoppie?

+2



As some of you have, will or ARE finding out; you get what you payfor. If they're a reputable business, or whom come highly recommended- believe me; you WANT them to get paid well.

They've earned it.

There are many professions, whom up until lately- have been grossly over paid for the return on investment you've given them. Mechanics are like every other professions. Good ones. Bad ones, Okay ones.

But they still (most of them) earn VASTLY less then you or I. Don't nickle and dime a mechanic.

OCBen

Not really on a commission at all like sales people, but exactly as described below. And not just for Porsche mechanics, but for mechanics at dealerships of all major brands here in the US, and likely the world over.

The "book" hours he's referring to are what are called standard hours for a particular job. That's the number of hrs established by the maker to do a particular job. It represents the statistical mean from a sample number of trained mechanics doing the same identical job. It is the same number for all dealerships (and independent mechanics who use the same service book) of a particular automotive make.

If you call your local service dept. and ask how much it will cost you for an oil change, the service rep will look up the standard hours for the job (if he doesn't know it by heart already) and multiply those hrs by the labor rate the dealership charges and adds the "marked up" cost of the oil, filter, drain plug gasket, shop towels, etc. - don't laugh, some service centers pass on the cost of these ancillary supplies to the customer. This explains the wide variation in oil change prices from various dealerships that we have seen posted here. But the standard hrs to do the job is the same across the board.

Now, for the experienced and efficient mechanic, he'll likely be able to do the job in about half the time or less, yet he'll get paid for the full billable standard hrs. The wet-behind-the-ears noob may take about twice as long than standard to do the job - and you can easily see how his paid hrs for an 8 hr day will be much less than 8 hrs, even though he slaved away the entire time. His more experienced colleague may get paid for 12 to 16 hrs for an 8 hr day's work, as mjsporsche pointed out.

Mechanics at dealerships are more like independent contractors than anything. They don't get paid to stand around and chew the fat if there's no billable work to do. I don't believe they get sick pay either. My neighbor who was a dealership mechanic didn't get paid for those days he couldn't go in to work because he was sick. It's a tough gig that's for sure.

abe

Question...how many hours does it take to change the oil and filter on a 997 to justify $400-$500?
It appears to me that there are alot of slow workers out to give you that high number of hours. Also if this is based on the average number of hours...why don't they reset the average since it also appears that many mechanics are doing the job for alot less hours?
abe

abe

What also drives me nuts is when they combine a bunch jobs and duplicate hours. We all know that to change the alternator you have to take the belt off...but if you ask to change the alternator and the belt they will charge you for the hrs to do one + the hours to do the other...thus duplicating the job. This has happened to me multiple times with the MB dealership untill I call them on it and they readjust the bill....so keep your eyes open when paying those bills.

abe

OCBen

Sounds like you didn't read my post above, otherwise you would know the answer.

Every dealership by law must charge you exactly the same amount of labor hours to do a particular job. Labor rates vary by state, city, and dealerships. As well as the price of parts and supplies at these dealerships. Do the math.

It is not based on the average number of hours that a particular service center is logging to do a particular job. I would venture to say that the statistical mean studies are typically done at corporate headquarters where they randomly call in service technicians and have them sit in on a class where they are taught how to do a particular procedure. They are then led to a "lab" where they have the set of instructions before them (service manual) and parts at hand to do exactly what they were just shown how to do in class. A lab attendant starts the stopwatch and stops it when they complete the job. The statistical mean and standard deviation are calculated from the sample size used. This then establishes the standard hours to do the job. And it won't change unless something significant changes in the procedure and/or there is an improvement to doing it more efficiently.

The reason for this is so you won't get gouged by someone charging you by the hour to do a particular job - he may milk it all day! As we all know there are other ways they can gouge you.

abe

thanks for the explaination...but I am still confused as to how it comes out to a $400-$500 oil filter change in some of these dealerships when the goal is to be consistent and fair.
abe