mdrums

Talk about some serious confusion...3 company's have come out with various exhaust mod's for the new 2009 Carrera/Carrera S. All 3 company's basline runs showing HP/TQ were vastly different and all claim different gains/losses and some contradict each other.

FABSPEED
Baseline on Dynojet........................339HP 273TQ
X Pipe w/ stock mufflers.................+13HP +23TQ
Side Muffler by-pass......................+17HP +24TQ

SHARKWERKS
Baseline on Mustang.......................309HP 244TQ
Center crossover w/ stock mufflers...+12HP +14TQ

AWE
Baseline on Mustang.......................345HP 289TQ
X Pipe w/ stock mufflers..................-6HP -4TQ....YES AWE claims the X Pipe loses power
Center crossover w/stock mufflers.....+4HP +4TQ

Fabspeeds dyno testing shows power gains for the X-pipe and AWE shows a loss in power. From the pictures of the Fabspeed and AWE X Pipe they look the same but I wonder if there is some difference between these 2 products that is making the AWE lose power?

AWE and Sharkwerks both have simular center muffler by-pass crossover pipes keeping each exhaist bank seperate. However the power gain between th 2 company's are very different. This is mostly as I am told due to Sharkwerks using a PDK car that has to be run on a 4 wheel drive dyno that is eating up some power. If we knew the absolute correction factors then the baselines might be closer.

The base line dyno runs are different with the Sharkwerks baseline vastly lower in power. I know dyno runs can differ due to weather, dyno operator, data input into the dyno computer and fuel but the Sharkwerks baseline is vastly different than both Fabspeed and AWE.

Now, wouldn't it be great if a car magazine like Excellence could possibly do an unbiased exhaust shootout and test all the above...on the same car, same dyno, same day?

RonCT

I've been following this too Mike - same thoughts. We all know that Porsche tries to fully optimize performance as long a emissions / sound ordinances are met. So you would think that removing a restriction in the system, like a center muffler, would add something.

I don't think there's any magic to either design - meaning I can't see how one company "got it right" while another didn't figure out how to get the most they could out of the same basic design. Using 2.5" pipe in a cross-over is pretty much the same no matter who makes it.

So I guess it all comes down to dyno, day, particular car, testing method, loss factor used (if any), etc.

I think the biggest lesson in all of this is: Don't think you are going to get some magical power gain from simple things like exhaust / bypass of this nature. On the other hand, I do think better flowing headers and low restriction cats can make a significant difference - but even there, 2 or 3 companies making the same basic item are probably going to produce comparable results.

mdrums

Ron, true! The center muffler is not all that restrictinve....it's the heavy side mufflers that are restrictive and the stock cats.

I believe from speaking with many people that design and race cars that there is more HP/TQ in the new 09 S engine but what would need to be done is to have an exhaust system with overall bigger diameter exhaust tubes, little restriction and a ECU re-program. For real HP/TQ gains a light weight flywheel along with head porting work and other internal goodies would need to be done.

sharkster

Great post Mike but also remember the exhaust path- it goes straight out of the header/cat and into the center section (sharp u-bends) and only then into the side mufflers. That's a bottle-neck right there and before the side mufflers. As for he dyno, we worked with the extremely knowledgeable experts at Stasis Engineering to avoid any possible issues. Having owned the car since September we've been playing/driving/testing on a daily basis to make sure we make something that works for most people in terms of sound, fit and design. The car performed flawlessly on their dyno every single time and there were zero transmission codes to boot. Nobody could ever question the way Stasis operate their dyno. We own the car and the product and they own the dyno. As you make a hardware change the ECU begins to switch up slowly between ignition maps when on the dyno and by run 8-9 it actually settles down and gives you the same results every time. Depending upon which run you choose to represent to represent will obviously show 4/6 (that was on run 2 after the change). IMHO it would be great if more shops also used independent dynos. As far as running in AWD mode and having lower results that is true but it's also an accurate representation of how a car with a PDK transmission will perform on a dyno and there are going to be a lot of people with these cars. We are not only able to monitor these cars on the dyno but also have software for these cars to boot hence we're in good shape. I also absolutely encourage/welcome anyone buying our part to dyno/test etc... We primarily designed something purely for aural pleasure but the fact that it picks up a few HP for us is a bonus. Had it made zero difference in that respect we would still use it on our car because everyone that's heard it, bought it etc... loves the sound just like we do. We wanted something that was legal here in California, wife-approved (for lack of resonance) and that we could also knowingly use at the track in favor of something else that was too loud or had cats that would disintegrate and get check engine lights.

mdrums

I was speaking to someone about the 2009 Carrera exhaust options and this thread I created and the confusion and they brought up a good point I wanted to share here get some thoughts and hopefully an explanation.

AWE is saying Fabspeeds X looses power and hence discrediting Fabspeed so why is AWE knowingly going on to sell a product (X Pipe) that "looses" hp. I would not think anyone would buy the AWE X Pipe. That doesn't make any sense to me unless there motive is to discredit Fabspeed. AWE is selling it cheaper than Fabspeed's too.
Fabspeeds X Pipe does have a slightly different shap to it. Also the Sharkwerks center muffler by pass cross over pipes are shaped different than AWE's as well.
I see that the aftermarket business is way more cut throat than I ever excpected.

Mr. Brown

Did you forget BORLA??
Mr. B
BORLA SOUND CLIP:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrAls...e=channel_page

RonCT

Mike,

I think you are pointing fingers without real cause unless I missed a post or two. I never read anywhere that AWE said Fabspeed's X-pipe doesn't work as advertised. I read every post I found because I'm interested in the subject and all I saw was that AWE did their best and came out with 3 products. 1 is their X pipe which doesn't make power, but sounds "great", 2 is their version of straight pipes, which they say does make power, and 3 is their yet-to-be-released header and cat / primary bypass.

As you know from years of interest in this, it is not an exact science. One set of technicians is on the west coast, where heat, humidity, etc. are different than here on the east coast. Different machines, different days, etc. All 3 companies are doing their own thing and publishing their findings.

mdrums

No I did not forget Borla...but Borla does not have a exhaust system for the 2009 Carrera. Please note the title of the thread. thanks!

mdrums

Ron, I am not pointing fingers but pointing out that AWE is claiming the X Pipe actually loses -6HP and Fabspeed say it makes +13HP. I find this interesting in all the marketing of the X pipe for the 09 Carrera. I am not saying AWE or Fabspeed is wrong but someone is wrong. I find that I do have cause to post this and bring it to the forefront on these forums. Hopefully someone with a 09 Carrera S 6 speed and a dyno that is not affiliated with any of these companies could do a non-bias test. I have PDK and my local Porsche race shop uses a 2 wheel drive dyno or I'd be the one doing this test.

RonCT

Mike,
I like your question from the other day about a magazine or anyone hosting a comparison - same day same machine.

ADias

Why does a PDK car need to be tested on a AWD dyno? why does the transmission matter on a 2WD car?

mdrums

Sharkwerks could better answer this but from my understanding with the PDK car the computer reads what speed the front wheels are turning. If they are not turning and the rears are the computer will throw a code and put the PDK car into a limp mode.

TT Surgeon

Tubi makes a nice looking system, as does cargraphic. They both use the crosspipe as well.

Dave07997S

Cargraphic makes a 997.2 exhaust but it is pretty much inline with the OEM system..



Notice the cats are welded into the manifold, just like OEM. Although they are using 200cpi cats.

Dave

Bob Rouleau

Personally, I distrust Fabspeed claims for increased power. I recall the supercup exhaust on the 993, sounded fantastic but independent dyno testing showed a loss in power and if driven a lot on track, it melted the rear bumper cover! Don't get me started on air filters and such which claim significant HP increases! If you want to make more noise, no problem. You'll be happy with a non-oem system. If you seriously expect a real change in power, well you might be disappointed. Consider that PSE which bypasses the very muffles causing restrictions is rated as a zero increase by Porsche. There is a clue there.
Best,