C&D COMPARO - DCT M3 vs PDK 911
12-25-2008, 07:18 PM
#16
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12-26-2008, 12:05 AM
#17
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My first thought on the article was that I wished they had used a C2S. I know they try keep the price points close and all but I'm not calling for a comparison with a GT3 or Turbo. I think the S would have been faster then the M3 on the track....the M only beat the C2 by 1 second on their best laps. . I 've passed quite a few new M3s at the track with my O5 C2S (w/ some mods but non-SC'ed), however none have ever crept up into my rearview.
On I side note, I came from an E46 M3 and think the new M3 is definitely nice. Personally, if I was looking for a small sports sedan, I'd go for a 335 manual with Dinnan software (about 385 hp and 420 tq) and possibly a set of coilovers). A friend of mine has one setup as such and it is FAST and handles very nicely (chip cost him $1,600). The other sedans which interest me are the Audi RS4, S5 and upcoming RS5. Wouldn't trade my C2S for any of 'em. Now a GT3, well thats a different story
On I side note, I came from an E46 M3 and think the new M3 is definitely nice. Personally, if I was looking for a small sports sedan, I'd go for a 335 manual with Dinnan software (about 385 hp and 420 tq) and possibly a set of coilovers). A friend of mine has one setup as such and it is FAST and handles very nicely (chip cost him $1,600). The other sedans which interest me are the Audi RS4, S5 and upcoming RS5. Wouldn't trade my C2S for any of 'em. Now a GT3, well thats a different story
12-26-2008, 12:53 AM
#18
Race Director
They had WAY too much air pressure in the Carrera's tires. They had way more than the manual call for!
When I shopped for my Porsche a BMW M3 never cross my mine as a car I'd compare.
When I shopped for my Porsche a BMW M3 never cross my mine as a car I'd compare.
12-27-2008, 07:59 PM
#19
Is there any truth at all to the comments on the C2's handling characteristics?
Where the 911 battles each corner, sometimes in a nerve-jangling sine wave of alternating grip and push, the M3 is dead calm.
In corners, the restless body is always in motion, 62 percent of the car’s weight out back looking for opportunities to get out front. As undulating pavement works the suspension and the weight transfers around, the steering can respond with surprises. Sometimes a gentle plow suddenly locks into a viscous bite, which spirals quickly into tail wag if you lift, as your right foot is seemingly screaming to do.
Originally Posted by Car and Driver
Where the 911 battles each corner, sometimes in a nerve-jangling sine wave of alternating grip and push, the M3 is dead calm.
In corners, the restless body is always in motion, 62 percent of the car’s weight out back looking for opportunities to get out front. As undulating pavement works the suspension and the weight transfers around, the steering can respond with surprises. Sometimes a gentle plow suddenly locks into a viscous bite, which spirals quickly into tail wag if you lift, as your right foot is seemingly screaming to do.
12-27-2008, 09:05 PM
#20
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Personally I find a 997 to be a very fine handling car indeed.
12-27-2008, 09:06 PM
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Yes, to a degree, there is some truth to the statement. However, the handling characteristics of a rear engine car is dramatically different from a front engine car. Since 90% (just guessing here) of cars are front engine, it takes a while to get used to and become comfortable with teh way a rear engine car handles.
I am guessing the C&D (and most) reporters are used to driving a lot on front engine cars and are not used to how the 911 handles. This is one of the areas that PSM and PASM can help control the car until the driver learns how to read and feel what the car is telling him.
I am guessing the C&D (and most) reporters are used to driving a lot on front engine cars and are not used to how the 911 handles. This is one of the areas that PSM and PASM can help control the car until the driver learns how to read and feel what the car is telling him.
12-27-2008, 09:19 PM
#22
I would guess An M6 which is more sportier and more in the price range of a 911 /911 S would be a better comparo sine the m6 feels more sportier than a m3 coupe/sedan
I am not an expert but As an average enthususast who owned E46 M3 smg, Cayman S and test drove the new 911/911 S pdk and today the 911 C4s targa , The 911 feel in base and all other variants is UNBEATABLE.
The feel of the car, the low slung cockpit, the awesome grip and how the 911 goes around corners, the tactile feedback is true sports car like. I test drove the E92 and it is a good M sedan but to say it is better than Porsche is simply not true. The 911 and M3 coupe/sedan cannot be compared just like an AMg version of an SUV cannot be compared to a sports sedan
I am not an expert but As an average enthususast who owned E46 M3 smg, Cayman S and test drove the new 911/911 S pdk and today the 911 C4s targa , The 911 feel in base and all other variants is UNBEATABLE.
The feel of the car, the low slung cockpit, the awesome grip and how the 911 goes around corners, the tactile feedback is true sports car like. I test drove the E92 and it is a good M sedan but to say it is better than Porsche is simply not true. The 911 and M3 coupe/sedan cannot be compared just like an AMg version of an SUV cannot be compared to a sports sedan
12-27-2008, 10:13 PM
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Of course Car and Driver is the same magazine that stated that the BMW M3 was better than a turbo:
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/..._test/(page)/1
I guess it does matters who the source is. By the way here are some other articles from Car and Driver stating how much better the M3 is than everyone else……
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...omparison_test
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/..._test/(page)/1
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/..._test/(page)/1
I guess it does matters who the source is. By the way here are some other articles from Car and Driver stating how much better the M3 is than everyone else……
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...omparison_test
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/..._test/(page)/1
12-28-2008, 03:18 PM
#24
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Early in the article they say that the M3 M-DCT is the 2nd best car in the world, aside from the 6 MT M3. They also say it "dispatched" the GTR. Tells you a lot about where the article is going to end up, if this is what is stated prior to any comparisons.
There's a 15 second difference between these two cars at the Nurburgring, yet the M3 people still somehow seem to think they have the faster car. As others have mentioned, the M3 fanboys can't see it at all, but I don't think it's fair to just casually dismiss this as an innocent symptom of being on an M3 board. For other cars that are also faster than the M3 they seem to acknowledge it. There's something about Porsche that rubs M3 people the wrong way.
Here's the M3forum's discussion of this same article. Very entertaining:
http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=243521
There's a 15 second difference between these two cars at the Nurburgring, yet the M3 people still somehow seem to think they have the faster car. As others have mentioned, the M3 fanboys can't see it at all, but I don't think it's fair to just casually dismiss this as an innocent symptom of being on an M3 board. For other cars that are also faster than the M3 they seem to acknowledge it. There's something about Porsche that rubs M3 people the wrong way.
Here's the M3forum's discussion of this same article. Very entertaining:
http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=243521
12-28-2008, 09:27 PM
#25
PRESS RELEASE
BMW M GMBH ON STABLE GROWTH COURSE: Worldwide sales as of November 2008 more than 50 percent over last year's comparative period.
12/11/2008, Munich -- In the second half of the business year 2008, BMW M GmbH continues to hold a stable growth course. The significant increase in sales as compared to last year have resulted in 22,340 vehicles being sold worldwide as of November 2008. This means that BMW M GmbH has exceeded the previous year's equivalent figures (14,092 units) by over 50 per cent. A major contribution to this was the success of the new BMW M3, which has shown continuously increasing sales figures since its market launch and which is now offered in three body variations. With its attractive product range and worldwide presence, BMW M GmbH has succeeded in increasing its sales figures and market share despite the current difficulties in the market environment.
As long ago as August 2008 the worldwide sales figures of BMW M GmbH reached a figure of over 16,150 units, thus surpassing the total figure of last year (16,128 units) early on. In the months that followed, this positive development actually continued. In November 2008 alone some 1,900 BMW M automobiles were delivered. "The fact that our dealers were able to supply significantly more vehicles than the average of the last nine months even in such dramatic times for the world economy demonstrates the fascination and attraction which BMW M automobiles exercise on our customers," explains Ludwig Willisch, President of BMW M GmbH. The unique driving experience offered by a BMW M model is still a persuasive factor for customers who wish to express a passion for top performance in the choice of their vehicle. As usual, the final figures for total sales in 2008 will not be available until the annual report has been completed. Nonetheless, the currently available figures suggest that 2008 will be one of the most successful years for BMW M GmbH in its 30-year history of vehicle production.
Worldwide it was especially the new BMW M3 which caused a sensation during the course of 2008. The high-performance sports car sold almost twice as well in its first year of production than its predecessor model within the same period. The penetration of additional target groups and the associated increase in sales figures was in part due to the extended model variety. In addition to the BMW M3 Coupé, the BMW M3 Convertible and the BMW M3 Sedan have been on offer since spring 2008.
All in all, BMW M GmbH offers seven current models. The portfolio ranges from the three body types of the BMW M3 and the BMW M5 Sedan through to the models of the BMW M6 Coupé and BMW M6 Convertible.
BMW M GMBH ON STABLE GROWTH COURSE: Worldwide sales as of November 2008 more than 50 percent over last year's comparative period.
12/11/2008, Munich -- In the second half of the business year 2008, BMW M GmbH continues to hold a stable growth course. The significant increase in sales as compared to last year have resulted in 22,340 vehicles being sold worldwide as of November 2008. This means that BMW M GmbH has exceeded the previous year's equivalent figures (14,092 units) by over 50 per cent. A major contribution to this was the success of the new BMW M3, which has shown continuously increasing sales figures since its market launch and which is now offered in three body variations. With its attractive product range and worldwide presence, BMW M GmbH has succeeded in increasing its sales figures and market share despite the current difficulties in the market environment.
As long ago as August 2008 the worldwide sales figures of BMW M GmbH reached a figure of over 16,150 units, thus surpassing the total figure of last year (16,128 units) early on. In the months that followed, this positive development actually continued. In November 2008 alone some 1,900 BMW M automobiles were delivered. "The fact that our dealers were able to supply significantly more vehicles than the average of the last nine months even in such dramatic times for the world economy demonstrates the fascination and attraction which BMW M automobiles exercise on our customers," explains Ludwig Willisch, President of BMW M GmbH. The unique driving experience offered by a BMW M model is still a persuasive factor for customers who wish to express a passion for top performance in the choice of their vehicle. As usual, the final figures for total sales in 2008 will not be available until the annual report has been completed. Nonetheless, the currently available figures suggest that 2008 will be one of the most successful years for BMW M GmbH in its 30-year history of vehicle production.
Worldwide it was especially the new BMW M3 which caused a sensation during the course of 2008. The high-performance sports car sold almost twice as well in its first year of production than its predecessor model within the same period. The penetration of additional target groups and the associated increase in sales figures was in part due to the extended model variety. In addition to the BMW M3 Coupé, the BMW M3 Convertible and the BMW M3 Sedan have been on offer since spring 2008.
All in all, BMW M GmbH offers seven current models. The portfolio ranges from the three body types of the BMW M3 and the BMW M5 Sedan through to the models of the BMW M6 Coupé and BMW M6 Convertible.
Personally, M3's are great cars for those that want Porsche-like performance, but need a usable backseat and trunk. If I only had one car, then it would be an M3.
///Michael
12-28-2008, 11:51 PM
#26
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Ideas on why this is happening? I have heard from friends that own 335 twin turbos that their cars are fabulous, great speed, no need for M3. Thoughts?
I did not pass through the intermediate step of owning an M3 before owning a Carrera, as many here, so i think about owning one in addition to my 997S.
I did not pass through the intermediate step of owning an M3 before owning a Carrera, as many here, so i think about owning one in addition to my 997S.
12-28-2008, 11:53 PM
#27
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I test drove an M6 and M5 before buying an 08 M3. They are all about the same 0-60 but the new M3 handles twice as good as an M6/M5. The M5/M6 weigh more and you can really feel the difference.
12-29-2008, 12:37 AM
#28
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i don't think that either bmw or porsche(with 911) look at each other as compitition. i hate when they put these head to head, and then state the bmw would be better for track duty. even after saying the porsche did better lap after lap in terms of consistancy and braking. how much would it cost to upgrade the bmw to run like 911 around laguna? i'm betting close to that 7g in difference.
i've seen m3's and 911's on the same track(as have you guys) and relize they both have advatages, but at the end of the day it's what we like not what were told is better.
granted though, this article is like comparing a 997 C to a Audi r8
i've seen m3's and 911's on the same track(as have you guys) and relize they both have advatages, but at the end of the day it's what we like not what were told is better.
granted though, this article is like comparing a 997 C to a Audi r8
12-29-2008, 05:20 PM
#29
Old School
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This quote sounds like it could have come out of an article about the 911 in the 60s. Same old trailing throttle garbage. You'd have to be driving like such a maniac to get TTO in the modern 911 that you probably deserve it.
