JimG

I am trading my car in because of all the problems I have had with it AND I just found out it had serious issues before I bought it. The car is a loaded 2006 C2S, Slate Grey, NAV, Chrono, Adaptive Seats. When I bought the car I was told it had no significant over-revs and the same for repairs. I asked three different times for hard copy reports and never got them. Last week I had a cashier print up the reports: there were 7,457 range 1, 1,971 range 2, 522 range 3, and 52 range 4 over-revs. This was listed on a service report for the previous owner who had the tranny replaced. The repair order states "If another driveline failure occurs and more over revs are noted warranty repairs will not be available". The salesman flat out lied to me and knew if I had seen this I would not have bought the car, CPO or not. What can I expect them to give me? A different salesman offered $57k (KBB) for my car on a trade in without me even deciding on the new car. I told the sales rep I wanted to see what they would do for me before I started throwing furniture around. I have not settled on the new car I want to get, there are some 04 TT's but they are a little out of my price range.

PDQ PDK CAYMAN S

If you are not satisfied with the deal they offer you then write to Atlanta. Make it a nice letter including how much you like the car and ask for a reasonable settlement. I'll bet you get it. Question, was range 3 an over-rev? Did they tell you what the higest revs for range 3 and 4 were?

Likemystoppie?

Each rev range = either 250 or 500 (can't remember) BEYOND REDLINE!

That car has been abused. No doubt about it.

Stop driving it. Get PCNA involved ASAP.

THinthedesert

Jim,

Please keep us posted on this one. Was it purchased from our one & only dealer here in the Phoenix area??

bitterazn

Novice question, but how am I supposed to interpret that over-rev data (i.e. what does 7,457 range 1 mean)?

purrybonker

When I bought my '06 (CPO) and brought it back to my home dealer (US to Canada) they did an inspection and produced the much feared over-rev report. I hadn't worried about this too much, although I hadn't specifically asked the selling dealer for it. I just assumed that the CPO process/status meant that the over-rev history was acceptable for PCNA.

The new report showed some high numbers in range 1 (1500 or so) and then much lower numbers in the higher ranges, but ONE over-rev in the highest category, whatever that is. The service guy explained that that meant RPMs of like 10k, or something. They weren't concerned.

These cars have rev-limiters obviously - so the only way to do an over-rev is on a misplaced downshift, right? I also assume that bumping the rev-limiter will produce a level 1 over-rev and wouldn't be any particular reason for concern. I've bumped the limiter many times since I've owned the car.

But 2000+ rev violations in the 2 to 4 categories seems ridiculous.

Are my assumptions correct? Are downshifts about the only way to create these scenarios? PDK/Tip cars should be clean as a whistle if that's the case.

Likemystoppie?

I'm not a Tech or Racing professional; so I'm not 100% but it looks like to me someone (obviously) doesn't know how to drive a friggin manual.

Someone needs an automatic.

am722

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe anything above a Range 1 ignition can result from simply banging it off the rev limiter in "normal" driving. The limiter keeps you from naturally progressing into Ranges 2 and above. I believe the only way you can get ignitions in those Ranges is by moneyshifting.

JimG

Back to my original question, does a $57K buyback seem fair? There are some people on this forum who have had the dealer buy their car back due to the lemon law. How is the buy-back price determined? Trade-in value, retail value?

gmsracing

If the car was misrepresented, I would ask for your purchase price.

Chris from Cali

Get back what you paid for it. I'm not a lawyer, but I'm sure there are a few here who could offer advice. My thinking is that if they want to nickel and dime you, you'll collect a lot more back on damages. This is exactly what consumer protection laws are for.

stubenhocker

The moral of this story obviously seems to be that BEFORE you buy a used car you demand and receive one of these printouts to insure your propspective purchase isn't a ticking time bomb, or YOU WALK AWAY!
Good luck in your quest for justice!

Likemystoppie?

You got to keep in mind something here; 'buyback' is NOT the proper terminology- not unless PCNA is/has been part of the equation.

If they have not (meaning they've not spoken to you personally, nor notified you via mail) in the picture- then you're just 'trading in'.


So, with that having been said I'd say this: Send me (via PM) me your VIN, with the mileage and a little more history on the car and I'll give you my .02 cents worth for ya.

- Just let me know if you want more help.
Chris

Paul523

Heck, yes.

Any chance that you have the salesman's original representation of lack of overrev history saved in an email or voicemail?
Even if you don't have it on the record, be diplomatic but absolutely insist on being made whole.

I wouldn't settle for anything less than 100% of your cost refunded by dealer (including sales tax you paid if that's how AZ works)--even if you've put some miles on it since buying-- if the deal was predicated upon salesman's false info.
I would only entertain a trade-in proposal if the dealer GM admits the error & if they're applying your full purchase price toward new, ordered, zero-miles '09 or new '08 with <10 miles on odo (w/ full offset of your sales tax paid) since you can't trust them with a pre-owned. I also agree with Chris/stoppie-- stop driving it from this point forward.

Pls post the outcome.

997, esq

This is very good advice. I actually did not get a read out when I got my CPO car bc I was a Porsche beginner, who didn't know the car tracked overrevs. I recently purchased a Durametric tool and it recovered the following overrevs:

umber of ignitions range 1 1102 / 455h
Number of ignitions range 2 125 / 284h
Number of ignitions range 3 2 / 284h
Number of ignitions range 4 0 / 0h
Number of ignitions range 5 0 / 0h
Number of ignitions range 6 0 / 0h
Operating hours counter 581


The recent range one ignition is mine. The others look to be a single misshift right before the time the car was sold, ~9000 miles. It definitely wasn't me, bc I babied the car for a while after I got it. So, it makes me wonder if some yahoo car dealer or test driver did it. From what I can tell in my research online, my overrevs should not be a concern.

I think my situation is a good contrast with Jim's car. Jim's car seems to have been abused, with multiple overrevs and misshifts. I would expect that the driver sucked or that it spend a lot of time on a track with a driver who wasn't very good. I am frankly surprised a dealer would sell a car with that many ignition overrevs.

Jim, If I was giving you advice or I was working for Porsche and advising them, I'd want to know if your current problems with the car conceiveably relate to the overrevs. I'd also want to know how long you have been driving it, how many miles you've put on it, how long it has been in the shop during that time, how much would you be out if you got only $57K, the current trade in value, etc. All those things could impact the what you should be looking for.

Regardless, though, your starting position should probably be a request for a full refund of your purchase price. I would contact Porsche corporate asap re this. At least initially, you shouldn't take issue with Porsche but with the disappointing experience you have had with one deceitful salesman and one abused car...

Terrible that you have to deal with this. Good luck!