X51 Package
06-24-2008, 12:16 AM
#16
Rennlist Member
And, Oh my my! What a ride? I've paid $17K for a whole lot less!
Do you own an X51?
Have you ever owned an X51?
Or, are you just another armchair economist?
If you know anything about Engineering Salaries in the real world you don't get much for $17k, so considering what the X51 delivers I consider it a real bargain; maybe that's because I pay a lot of Engineers a lot of money!
If you are into marginalization and cost minimization (or stretching), then it is not worth it.... but then neither would a Porsche, any Porsche.
If you are into Engineering excellence and pushing the envelope (never mind the added driving experience), then it is real value.
Heck, even my wife could tell the difference. After doing the Porsche Driving Experience (Masters), and then wanting her own 911; she chose the X51 package (twice) over a 997S.
You can make the cost argument over anything: A steak, bottle of wine, beer; even the paint you put on the walls of your house. Rationalization doesn't make you (or me) right. It comes down to choice, educated opinion, and driving experience, ability and use.
If I were looking for advice here on the X51, the only opinions I'd trust would be from those who had bought it. For what it's worth, I bought it twice and I am a "value" hunter.
Do you own an X51?
Have you ever owned an X51?
Or, are you just another armchair economist?
If you know anything about Engineering Salaries in the real world you don't get much for $17k, so considering what the X51 delivers I consider it a real bargain; maybe that's because I pay a lot of Engineers a lot of money!
If you are into marginalization and cost minimization (or stretching), then it is not worth it.... but then neither would a Porsche, any Porsche.
If you are into Engineering excellence and pushing the envelope (never mind the added driving experience), then it is real value.
Heck, even my wife could tell the difference. After doing the Porsche Driving Experience (Masters), and then wanting her own 911; she chose the X51 package (twice) over a 997S.
You can make the cost argument over anything: A steak, bottle of wine, beer; even the paint you put on the walls of your house. Rationalization doesn't make you (or me) right. It comes down to choice, educated opinion, and driving experience, ability and use.
If I were looking for advice here on the X51, the only opinions I'd trust would be from those who had bought it. For what it's worth, I bought it twice and I am a "value" hunter.
I have the X-51 and have no regrets about the 17K option. or the fact that the S now has 385hp. What is the price of getting to drive it everyday for the last 21/2 years? I am sure a lot of folks on this board spend that on one week of vacation.
Why do people pay $200 for a bottle of wine?
Why do people pay $2000 for a suit?
Why do people pay $10,000 for a vacuum tube amplifier
Answer: They perceive a difference makes it worth the extra $$$. If you don't, Porsche was nice enough to allow you to make a choice. (and you can listen to your boom-box in your shorts shorts/t-shirt while sipping 2-buck Chuck).
06-24-2008, 12:31 AM
#17
Three Wheelin'
And, Oh my my! What a ride? I've paid $17K for a whole lot less!
Do you own an X51?
Have you ever owned an X51?
Or, are you just another armchair economist?
If you know anything about Engineering Salaries in the real world you don't get much for $17k, so considering what the X51 delivers I consider it a real bargain; maybe that's because I pay a lot of Engineers a lot of money!
If you are into marginalization and cost minimization (or stretching), then it is not worth it.... but then neither would a Porsche, any Porsche.
If you are into Engineering excellence and pushing the envelope (never mind the added driving experience), then it is real value.
Heck, even my wife could tell the difference. After doing the Porsche Driving Experience (Masters), and then wanting her own 911; she chose the X51 package (twice) over a 997S.
You can make the cost argument over anything: A steak, bottle of wine, beer; even the paint you put on the walls of your house. Rationalization doesn't make you (or me) right. It comes down to choice, educated opinion, and driving experience, ability and use.
If I were looking for advice here on the X51, the only opinions I'd trust would be from those who had bought it. For what it's worth, I bought it twice and I am a "value" hunter.
Do you own an X51?
Have you ever owned an X51?
Or, are you just another armchair economist?
If you know anything about Engineering Salaries in the real world you don't get much for $17k, so considering what the X51 delivers I consider it a real bargain; maybe that's because I pay a lot of Engineers a lot of money!
If you are into marginalization and cost minimization (or stretching), then it is not worth it.... but then neither would a Porsche, any Porsche.
If you are into Engineering excellence and pushing the envelope (never mind the added driving experience), then it is real value.
Heck, even my wife could tell the difference. After doing the Porsche Driving Experience (Masters), and then wanting her own 911; she chose the X51 package (twice) over a 997S.
You can make the cost argument over anything: A steak, bottle of wine, beer; even the paint you put on the walls of your house. Rationalization doesn't make you (or me) right. It comes down to choice, educated opinion, and driving experience, ability and use.
If I were looking for advice here on the X51, the only opinions I'd trust would be from those who had bought it. For what it's worth, I bought it twice and I am a "value" hunter.
The other option-which I have driven-is a TT. If it wouldn't upset the family life so much I'd be all over that like stink on poop. I'll have to wait until my kids are old enough to appreciate it so we can tag team mom. The TT seems like a true bargain relative to the X51.
It is very safe to say I don't own and will never own the X51 package unless it can be had for $5K or less.
06-24-2008, 01:24 AM
#18
Three Wheelin'
no doubt about it x-51 is a great option... all I was saying is that you'll be able to buy a used X-51 car for cheaper cause the new S has 385 HP....
I'm familiar with the torque curve of the X-51 997 and it looks great... I"d like to see porsche literature show the torque curve for the new 997 385hp motor... I'm willing to bet it won't have the bottom end torque surge that is currently on the X-51 and I'll be surprised if it matches it on the top end.... but one thing I know for sure is it will be a fatter torque curve... lets see how it pans out... X51... great option though... good analogies to a wanting a $200 bottle of wine and having it TODAY!... agreed.
I'm familiar with the torque curve of the X-51 997 and it looks great... I"d like to see porsche literature show the torque curve for the new 997 385hp motor... I'm willing to bet it won't have the bottom end torque surge that is currently on the X-51 and I'll be surprised if it matches it on the top end.... but one thing I know for sure is it will be a fatter torque curve... lets see how it pans out... X51... great option though... good analogies to a wanting a $200 bottle of wine and having it TODAY!... agreed.
06-24-2008, 02:50 AM
#19
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What other options did you explore before deciding X51 was the right choice? Did you sample any of the Supercharge kits. Just wondering how the two compare. From the outside looking in the SC seems like the smart choice.
The other option-which I have driven-is a TT. If it wouldn't upset the family life so much I'd be all over that like stink on poop. I'll have to wait until my kids are old enough to appreciate it so we can tag team mom. The TT seems like a true bargain relative to the X51.
It is very safe to say I don't own and will never own the X51 package unless it can be had for $5K or less.
The other option-which I have driven-is a TT. If it wouldn't upset the family life so much I'd be all over that like stink on poop. I'll have to wait until my kids are old enough to appreciate it so we can tag team mom. The TT seems like a true bargain relative to the X51.
It is very safe to say I don't own and will never own the X51 package unless it can be had for $5K or less.
The last car I would buy is the TT.
The #1 car is the 997 RS and the # 2 is the 997 GT3 (but the RS the $17K difference (despite the pundits).
For an all-around car (daily driver, mine is currently a Black Series) you can't beat the X51 package.
Supercharging is for those with money to burn (and unbridled faith), it voids warranty; and I have more confidence in Porsche's engineering (and rigorous testing) than some aftermarket (unknown) company. Too many horror stories to convince me, but I then run a "state of the art" Engineering company, but what do I know?
At the end of the day, you seem to like X51, but you just don't want to pay for it. Read my earlier comments about marginalization and cost minimization again.
Just because you can't (or chose not to) afford it, doesn't mean it is not worth it. In my experience, it is worth every penny.
06-24-2008, 04:00 AM
#20
And, Oh my my! What a ride? I've paid $17K for a whole lot less!
Do you own an X51?
Have you ever owned an X51?
Or, are you just another armchair economist?
If you know anything about Engineering Salaries in the real world you don't get much for $17k, so considering what the X51 delivers I consider it a real bargain; maybe that's because I pay a lot of Engineers a lot of money!
If you are into marginalization and cost minimization (or stretching), then it is not worth it.... but then neither would a Porsche, any Porsche.
If you are into Engineering excellence and pushing the envelope (never mind the added driving experience), then it is real value.
Heck, even my wife could tell the difference. After doing the Porsche Driving Experience (Masters), and then wanting her own 911; she chose the X51 package (twice) over a 997S.
You can make the cost argument over anything: A steak, bottle of wine, beer; even the paint you put on the walls of your house. Rationalization doesn't make you (or me) right. It comes down to choice, educated opinion, and driving experience, ability and use.
If I were looking for advice here on the X51, the only opinions I'd trust would be from those who had bought it. For what it's worth, I bought it twice and I am a "value" hunter.
Do you own an X51?
Have you ever owned an X51?
Or, are you just another armchair economist?
If you know anything about Engineering Salaries in the real world you don't get much for $17k, so considering what the X51 delivers I consider it a real bargain; maybe that's because I pay a lot of Engineers a lot of money!
If you are into marginalization and cost minimization (or stretching), then it is not worth it.... but then neither would a Porsche, any Porsche.
If you are into Engineering excellence and pushing the envelope (never mind the added driving experience), then it is real value.
Heck, even my wife could tell the difference. After doing the Porsche Driving Experience (Masters), and then wanting her own 911; she chose the X51 package (twice) over a 997S.
You can make the cost argument over anything: A steak, bottle of wine, beer; even the paint you put on the walls of your house. Rationalization doesn't make you (or me) right. It comes down to choice, educated opinion, and driving experience, ability and use.
If I were looking for advice here on the X51, the only opinions I'd trust would be from those who had bought it. For what it's worth, I bought it twice and I am a "value" hunter.
Right, only people with x51 should discuss it. Like someone wants to admit they paid 17k for a marginal upgrade that is easily surpassed in the aftermarket for less money. 17k for a whole lot less? I don't think your opinion should be valued too highly after that piece of information.
I suppose I can only get accurate information on the moon from people who have been there.
06-24-2008, 06:51 AM
#21
Three Wheelin'
Spend more time running your "state of the art" engineering company employing hundreds of high paid engineers and someday you'll be able to afford that 997 RS.
FYI I do think the $17K is easily justified in the GT3 cars but when I look at the two side by side I can tell I've got something different-not just a piece of buttered corn on the cob ready to take a run at me.
06-24-2008, 09:02 AM
#22
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When I ordered the X51 on my 06cab, I did not flinch at the 17K. Fortunate enough that I wanted the best available, knowing down the road there would be better. I was not worried about resale or depreciation. I have had 2 plus years of sheer enjoyment from the car. Have driven straight 997S and there is marked difference from X51. Remember TT cab wasn't even available in 06.
I have a deposit on TT cab09 but have pushed it back awaiting FL and DI , and possible PDK, though I will be very interested to see specs on 09X51 powerkit when available. Do I regret the X51 order..Absolutely not
I have a deposit on TT cab09 but have pushed it back awaiting FL and DI , and possible PDK, though I will be very interested to see specs on 09X51 powerkit when available. Do I regret the X51 order..Absolutely not
06-24-2008, 01:10 PM
#23
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Is the actual price paid for the X-51 package $17k? It has always been my understanding (mainly from discussions on this forum) that you can negotiate around a 15% discount on options. This would place the price of the X-51 at $14.5k. Also, since the PSE is included with the X-51 package, that brings the true price of the performance upgrade to around $12k (presuming the buyer would have purchased the PSE system anyway).
Thoughts?
Thoughts?
06-24-2008, 01:27 PM
#24
Race Director
X51 is worth what people will pay for it. I also believe that you can not fully appreciate the X51 package and get your money worth unless you are going to the track every month. For me...yes I would like X51 and could put it to good use but I can not afford it nor do I keep my cars long enough.
06-24-2008, 01:49 PM
#25
Am I missing something
Why do people keep saying the new 997 somehow devalues the X-51. I have a '07 C4S with X-51 and I consider the 17K a bargain for the following reasons...I have been enjoying driving it for 2+ years and it is still more less equal to the new 997S spec. I agree that I would not buy it now on a '08...since the '09 is so close...but how much will pre-FL 997S drivers spend to get out of there old car and into a 2009...if you include the price increase and the depreciation hit...a lot more than 17k. I have a awesome car at similiar spec with no need to change for awhile....and I love the way the X-51 drives
Last edited by TylerCoupe; 06-24-2008 at 05:38 PM.
06-24-2008, 02:08 PM
#26
Still plays with cars.
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There is no substitute for cubic inches. Aftermarket stuff? Hah. Some of it actually works. Some of it doesn't make a mess of the car. How can you compare it to factory engineered WARANTED and tested?
06-24-2008, 06:32 PM
#27
Why do people keep saying the new 997 somehow devalues the X-51. I have a '07 C4S with X-51 and I consider the 17K a bargain for the following reasons...I have been enjoying driving it for 2+ years and it is still more less equal to the new 997S spec. I agree that I would not buy it now on a '08...since the '09 is so close...but how much will pre-FL 997S drivers spend to get out of there old car and into a 2009...if you include the price increase and the depreciation hit...a lot more than 17k. I have a awesome car at similiar spec with no need to change for awhile....and I love the way the X-51 drives
How can X51 retain any value? Now, the value is really to the individual and it is difficult to put a price on the enjoyment people have had with it over the years. It is not difficult to put a price on the value of the option when the car is traded or sold and X51 brings a 5k premium at best.
06-24-2008, 06:35 PM
#28
no doubt about it x-51 is a great option... all I was saying is that you'll be able to buy a used X-51 car for cheaper cause the new S has 385 HP....
I'm familiar with the torque curve of the X-51 997 and it looks great... I"d like to see porsche literature show the torque curve for the new 997 385hp motor... I'm willing to bet it won't have the bottom end torque surge that is currently on the X-51 and I'll be surprised if it matches it on the top end.... but one thing I know for sure is it will be a fatter torque curve... lets see how it pans out... X51... great option though... good analogies to a wanting a $200 bottle of wine and having it TODAY!... agreed.
I'm familiar with the torque curve of the X-51 997 and it looks great... I"d like to see porsche literature show the torque curve for the new 997 385hp motor... I'm willing to bet it won't have the bottom end torque surge that is currently on the X-51 and I'll be surprised if it matches it on the top end.... but one thing I know for sure is it will be a fatter torque curve... lets see how it pans out... X51... great option though... good analogies to a wanting a $200 bottle of wine and having it TODAY!... agreed.
Oh, and the 200 dollar wine today analogy is a terrible one as it would depend on the vintage, the varietal, storage conditions, etc.
06-24-2008, 06:39 PM
#29
Never said I didn't like it and never said I wouldn't pay for it-just wouldn't pay more than $5K.
Spend more time running your "state of the art" engineering company employing hundreds of high paid engineers and someday you'll be able to afford that 997 RS. FYI I do think the $17K is easily justified in the GT3 cars but when I look at the two side by side I can tell I've got something different-not just a piece of buttered corn on the cob ready to take a run at me.
Spend more time running your "state of the art" engineering company employing hundreds of high paid engineers and someday you'll be able to afford that 997 RS.
FYI I do think the $17K is easily justified in the GT3 cars but when I look at the two side by side I can tell I've got something different-not just a piece of buttered corn on the cob ready to take a run at me.Don't even need to try to justify a GT3's price increase. GT1 based racing block, LSD, lower weight, actual dry sump, suspension, etc.
06-24-2008, 06:54 PM
#30
No extra manitenance. Very bad decision if looking to buy one new as X51 is a $17K option and the 09' regular S has both more power and torque. I suspect Porsche will be offering dealer rebates to clear out the cars like they did with the 04' Jahre. Used, I have seen X51 S models in the $70k's, which is a good deal.
Last edited by 10 GT3; 06-26-2008 at 04:11 AM.