Best exhaust while still sounding like a Porsche?
 

Im considering installing a new exhaust on my 07 997S. Performance is as important as sound so I have eliminated Tubi because 1. it does not sound like a Porsche (from what Ive gathered from the boards) 2. was not made to work with aftermarket cats. Ive strongly considered AWE, but recently started looking into Europipe as an alternative. Anyone have any experience with Europipe or AWE that could chime in any information to help make my decision? Any other piece of information that could help will be greatly appreciated as I am new to Porsches in general.

Best sounding...Porsche Sport Exhaust also known as PSE. I have Fabspeed mufflers because they are light in weight, sound good and most like a Cup car at 5000rpm and up. I have heard Tubi and AWE but picked Fabspeed. I have not heard the Europipe and Cargraphic systems.

I went with the bypass. I agree it doesn't sound like a modern Porsche but a whole bunch like my 930 from years ago. Pretty muscular and I have lost the ability to talk on a cell phone with the targa open at 3k rpm.

I had a Tubi on the Ferrari and it was absolute music. Trying to find the balance of improved sound while remaining Porschesqe is tough. I agree with mdrums that PSE is pretty compelling yet personally feel it is understated.

BORLA
 

Borla just released an exhaust and headers for the 997. I heard the sound clips and I love it. I've had lots of Borla's on other vehicles and have been completely happy.
I've ordered the Borla's for my C2S. If you're interested, contact Chris Higgins at Borla at: chrish@Borla.com, and tell him I referred you.
Mr. B

I have a Europipe on a 997TT - quality and engineering are outstanding, couldn't ask for better customer service and I really like the sound (but that will be a personal decision for you). The only drawback is you buy in Euros so by the time it becomes $'s, the system is pretty pricey. BTW, my system runs 100 cell cats and have had no issues with CEL's.

Best sounding exhaust that sounds like a Porsche
 

for my$.02

I have had the PSE on two cars.... it is Porsche and for my money it sounds great.... really nice scream under WOT and super burble at idle..


great stuff...

Best sounding, performing, and cost effective combination I've found yet...

Porsche X51 Headers, $625
AWE 200 Cell Cats, $1450
OEM 997S mufflers, $0
Install $180

The PSE is what Porsche wants its own exhaust to sound like, so my vote goes to PSE too.

Regards,

Not me
 

I don't want mine sounding exactly like all the other Porsches.
Mr. B

Snob. Ferrari is thata way =====>

:roflmao:

um...I think Tubi sounds the best - so subjective though. However, I get nothing but compliments from other Porsche owners. I don't know who said it doesn't sound like a Porsche??? In my opinion it sounds like an air-cooled Porsche Again..just my .02.

I will go out on a limb here and ask why you would want to add weight to an already heavy rear end - a la the PSE? If the goal is sound and performance any of the after market brands will deliver - with reduced weight compared to the factory set up.

can i ask what kind of performance increases you got with that combination

This probably doesn't count but I have Europipe on a Turbo. I appreciate the quiet. I like the sound of the turbos over exhaust. I also haven't opened it up so I have no idea what it might sound like at full throttle.

Big Swole has the same and a number of guys in the turbo forum prefer Europipe.

There are several videos of the sound in this thread.

https://rennlist.com/forums/997-turb...pressions.html

I have the TechArt exhaust which is switchable using the factory PSE switch. Love it in both modes. Quiet gives awesome tone and induction sounds. And loud gives good tone and is louder.

I have fabspeed headers, xpipe with 200cell cats, and muffler delete... I can’t get enough of the way my car sounds... I never have the radio on even with a alpine ilx head unit, alpine amp, all feeding a full focal set up.
With the x51 airbox, GT3 throttle body, and MaxSpeed plenum, lightweight flywheel all I hear is the flat six sing it’s beautiful song

I’m a huge fan of FVD.

New kid on the block, Soul Performance has a sweet VALVED option. I was very fortunate and got one of the first production units. A great young U.S. company, high quality components and reliable function. Either closed or open, the exhaust presentation is wonderful. Highly recommend an evaluation:

Thank you for the kind words, glad to take care of you! We have a full exhaust suite for the 997.1 and we're always happy to chat with you to make sure you get exactly what you are looking for. If anyone hasn't already, check out our development thread here.

https://soulpp.com/wp-content/upload...ra-Exhaust.jpg

-Mike

I went full Fabspeed exhaust with the GT3 throttle body and IPD Plenum. Sounds great to me but I'm biased along with this being the only Porsche I've driven!

..

I'd be curious to "hear" your feedback once you get the system installed....:cool:

Spot on. I also have a Tubi and it sounds like an aircooled car. Depending on throttle application it can be driven quietly or like an air cooled race car. I love it

I just got a 2011 C4S. Very quiet. I am not a hard driver, but I want deep burble at idle, since I don't run it over hard. Best bet?

Endless opinions posted here on this topic over the years. So a lot of different ways of getting what you want. What's your budget? There's an inexpensive way of doing it which some think results in much improved sound but with a somewhat cheap sounding note to it. Others are perfectly happy with it so highly subjective. Then you can spend more money and get the same much improved sound but in the opinion of many a more sophisticated note rather than just louder.

FVD Brombacher any day.

Another vote for fvd. they have so many exhaust options for the 997 from mild to wild. Definitely check them out.all their exhausts retain the factory engine note. Does not change it into a v8 or exotic car sound.
unfortunately they do almost zero marketing so not many have even heard of fvd.

I have a full FVD exhaust from long tube headers to 200 cell HJS cats. It’s the finest built exhaust by far but very expensive. It’s built by M&M in Germany which makes the Cup exhaust for racing.
Dont hesitate to contact the distributor. She is the best and everything they sell looks like jewelry.

Best non-PSE exhausts, subjective
 

Slightly off-topic but if a car has factory sport exhaust is there any settings such that on cold start up that it is automatically on

2011 C4
Anyone used a fairly simple and inexpensive by-pass, like

NHP Center Muffler Bypass X-Pipe fits Porsche 997.2 C2 / C4 / C2S / C4S / GTS. [size=13px]US$749.95[/size]

OR

from Topgear: PORSCHE 911 997.2 CARRERA SECONDARY MUFFLER BYPASS [size=13px]Brand:[/size][size=13px] [/size]Topgear[size=13px] [/size]Price:[size=13px] [/size]$380.52

[no connection whatsoever to either]

One thing that I noticed is that all of the bypass x pipes look very much alike, but the pricing ranges hugely. Are they that much different from Fabspeed, which looks like a great product, too.
Again, any advice on the bypass--and the sound difference between stock

2011 C2S

This could be helpful.

https://rennlist.com/forums/997-foru...omparison.html

I choose the Shark Werks crossover pipes. At lower RPMs, it's a bit louder but, I'd describe it as dropping the octave to a deeper burble. At higher RPMs it is noticeably louder. I thought it was a good pairing with the PSE. Note that Shark Werks went with a crossover instead of an X-pipe like Fabspeed and others.. A X-pipe blends the exhaust gasses while the crossover keeps them separate. The X-pipe blending produces a different sound and in some applications produces more power due to a scavenging effect. Blending exhaust gasses does, however, introduce more turbulence to the flow. In Shark Werks' tuning guide they tested both and claim losses with the turbulence outweigh the gains in scavenging thus they recommended smoother flowing crossovers. I don't care about a horsepower increase but it was interesting reading.

For pricing it's about fitment. Shark Werks is on the high end but they have a reputation of perfect fitment. Lower down the price scale you may have to wrestle it into place. Shark Werks also added hardware to affix the crossovers to the OEM mounting points. Compare that to Billy Boat crossovers which have to self support.

Based on my experience, I would completely agree with Hula's comment above about fitment of the Sharkwerks product. I would also recommend Sharkwerks based on the quality of manufacture and materials.


https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...a14f7506cf.jpg
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...58ed026dc8.jpg
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...f2e3e8d215.jpg
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...928e46673e.jpg

Great overview of the difference between crossover and X-pipe. Wasn't aware of that. Being ignorant about the differences in these designs I chose Sharkweks too based on reputation and feedback here and elsewhere.




+1 on overall quality and I would add fitment. Never heard about any fitment issues with Sharkwerks. Plenty of stories of poor fitment with the slightly less expensive options though. A few bad enough where they simply couldn't be installed. Some managed despite the poor design and poor built but based on those stories they were somewhat compromised or "innovative" installations with bending, banging and other forced actions to put it all together. In fairness though, some have had no problems at all with the low cost options so either the issues are due to the skill of the installer or the quality consistency of the lower cost products is lacking.

The difference in price between the options available have narrowed quiet a bit so I would have a hard time arguing in favor of the least expensive ones. Last I saw, the difference between the least expensive brand and Sharkwerks was less than $200.

Fabspeed headers to tips. I have the silicone elbow and cap on the air box. Car sounds like I want in first gear for about three seconds. Doesn’t sound like anything driving around. Cost plenty. The tips fall off while you drive, and are expensive. Never again. In fact anyone with PSE can trade me!

+1 Bypass
X-pipe is just for sound but not for engine performance, you must not mix the 2 sides exhaust gas on the Flat6 !
No problem of back pressure, it's done mainly by the cats and not by the 180° tubes of the primary silencer.
The primary silencer is install on the 997.2 to pass the dB test in UE.
If you look at the 997.1, it's the same configuration without primary silencer except the cats are on the X-tubes and on the exhaust collector on the 997.2.
I have Milltek SSXPO130 bypass and PSE on my C4S 2010 and I like its sound.
Milltek is the UK version of Sharwerk, same shape, same steel, same thickness, import taxes for Sharwerks are expensive in UE.
I checked with a led connected on the PSE electric connector, there is no shut off by central unit depending of car speed or engine revolution on the 997.2. (it's only on 997.1)
So, it's not necessary to unplug the connector or to use a remote controller to have the PSE on all the time, just activate it by pressing sport exhaust button.

I have a Tubi too.....love the sound!

Tom

Thanks, everyone, for advice and opinions about 997.2 exhaust systems. This discussion will no doubt go on for ever.

Price-wise and quality, the Sharkwerks cross-over might make sense, and I am hedging in that direction. Anyone know of a Sharkswerk outlet in Canada in order to mitigate duty and exchange pricing?

Thanks again . . . .

Great thread! Did anyone notice this is a bumped thread from TWELVE YEARS AGO? hahahahaha some great info still though ;)

I'm still confused on the 997.1 center mufflers compared to the 997.2 center mufflers. is there no reason to replace the center mufflers on a 997.1? I've reached out the sharkwerks and they don't make it for the 997.1, just the 997.2. Are the 997.1 center mufflers "sporty" enough? I'm having a used set of pse mufflers installed on my car in the near future so wondering if I should also replace the center mufflers with something to give me a little more noise and performance.

The .1 doesn't have the center muffler, only .2 cars have the center muffler.

Ah got it. So I guess what I'm seeing in the center portion of my exhaust system is the cats? The 997.2 has cats and mufflers in the center portion?

The cats are forward of the center muffler on each side. In the photo above showing the Sharkwerks unit - it bolts up to a cat on each side.

The important factor . . . sure, rev the hell out of your car and you get noise (which is what many of the videos do to show and sell their product) . . . BUT, which has the impressive, low, dangerous burble AT IDLE?

THAT is the true test, don't you think? The coveted IB (Idle Burble).

iPE

autoatlanta links :

exhaust_997-1

exhaust 997.2

My setup
 

2007 C2S Cab
Stock headers
Stock mufflers with “Fister” mod
Top Gear 200 Cell cats from England.

No engine lights once I replaced O2 sensors.

I personally love the note, below 4K it has a nice grumble. No drone. Above 4K she starts to scream all the way to redline. Puts a smile on my face every time.

150 bucks for the Fister work at a local muffler shop. I pulled the cans myself.
Around 800 Canadian for the cats shipped to Vancouver.

Installed myself.

:-)

Any sound clips? What do you mean by "No engine lights once I replaced O2 sensors."?

i uploaded some clips in another thread I will need to find it. Search under my name.
I was getting some OBD P codes after swapping the sensors from the stock cats to the high flow ones. I had to heat them up pretty hot with a torch to get them loose. Maybe I cooked them? Or I contaminated them when swapping. Not sure.

I replaced the upstream sensors as I was seeing some weird results when viewing them on my OBD tool.

once I replaced with new, no issues since. ;-)

If you get codes you can also just add an extender on the O2 ports which worked for me.

I have a similar setup:
x51 headers
AWE 200 cell cats
Gundo hacked OE muffs

Aggressive at startup, nice burble at idle and holy hell at WOT.

The change in cats makes the most difference in sound

Could not agree more. The Cats are what made it. ;-)

Here is the link to my thread that has sound clips. There are a couple vids for my car. First is at idle and small blips. The other one is on a freeway. ;-). Take a listen.

https://rennlist.com/forums/997-foru...=Chonniedotcom

Thanks.

​​​​​​

The PSE by the factory is pretty good. As mostly an air-cooled 911 guy for decades, the 997S with PSE is great. Even a friend of mine with a Carrera GT thinks so!

:thumbup: Sounds great, very similar to mine (cab also but i also have the 4L...)

Hi!! I´ve installed the Fabspeed headers in my 997.1 C2 (manual) and I´m experiencing a very noticeable loss of torque in the lower rpm, so bad that makes the car to stall sometimes. When turning a street corner, in second gear, if I put too much gas, the engine stalls. It doesn´t happen with the OEM headers. I´m planning to make a ECU flash repro to see if it can fix the problem. Did you gain some power with your configuration? I want better torque as this car is my daily, and I really don´t care for gains in power in 7500rpm. Also I noticed that with the OEM headers I´ve never went full throtle above 2.000 rpm as the acceleration was brutal... now I can put my pedal to the floor after 2.000rpm and up to 3.500rpm the acceleration is slower than before... the difference occurs above 5.000rpm...

Hey Diego,

Very sorry to hear you're having issues with the headers, are you still running your homemade X-Pipe?

No, I´ve changed completely the exhaust. The fact is I tried Fabspeed headers with OEM cats and mufller bypass and the problem persisted, so I installed OEM headers and the problem was solved. Now I installed again FABSPEED headers and made a completely new exhaust (catless) and the problem is there again.
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...7f87dc7b76.png

Very Interesting! I can truthfully say we have never heard of anyone having this issue when installing our headers.
In all of our R&D testing, 997's gained power and Tq using the full OEM system + our headers. Feel free to shoot me a PM and we can connect our engineers with your shop.

ive never heard of or experienced the issue you are having.

Hi! After month of track days and modifying the exhaust, I´ve managed to keep the Fabspeed Sport Headers and made the car perform better than with OEM setup. I strongly recommend to go all the way with Fabspeed parts and do not mix and match, as this could be a painfull, long and I´m sure that the car still can perform better with all the setup from Fabspeed, alongside with the Carbon intake, the Sport Cup exhaust and the ECU tunning. Atlhough I have only installed the sport headers and made a custom exhaust from that part on, the sound is impressive, I get compliments everywhere I go and the car performs a lot better at the track. Once it passes 4000 rpm, the car screams and accelerate much faster to the redline. I´m willing to complete the setup and install all the Fasbpeed setup so I can keep improving the car. So far I´ve installed only Fabspeed Sport Headers, so I feel the car has a lot more to give. On the sound point, it´s epic. I´ve got pulled by the local police and they stopped me just to ask me to go full speed so they can hear and enjoy the exhaust sound. It can only happen in a Porsche. I´m still improving the car and already installed a KW V3 suspension, which is day and night compared to OEM. Next changes will be Numeric short shifter, Goodridge braided brake lines , Titan roll cage, and the hole sport setup from Fabspeed (carbon Y intake, Sport Cup exhaust, ECU tune). I´ll keep you posted!

You're making a decision without actually hearing Tubi's in person? I have X51 Headers and a Tubi Muffler/exhaust and it sounds VERY much like a Porsche. It burbles when cold-start, braps nicely with throttle, and sounds like heaven under load.

Tubi exhaust was ace. Old mate needs to hear it with his own ears both from the outside and from within the cabin. Closest I've heard a water-cooled 911 sounding like an aircooled race car. Keep it below 3k rpm, and you can drive around town without attention.

I agree the PSE sounds great .... The trick I have found with the PSE is to get the car going once in awhile ... get the car up to up to 160 / 180 and then at regular speed the pitch and sound seems to open up a bit my motorcycle seems to do the same thing after a good blast .

Here is my Soul exhaust as a ref.




Here is my previous exhaust that was Gundo hacked.

Soul sounds great, 'dega. Did you do headers and cats, too?

Nope, those are all stock.

Welp, now I'm one step closer to a Soul exhaust for my .1. Any noticeable change in performance? I'd prefer to install a used PSE system to stay closer to factory and curious any 'sacrifices' more so than any 'gains'...

Thanks for posting up the video comparison, not often we see it that well done. If Mike hasn't already asked, what you be up for us using the SOUL equipped clip? If so, could you send the raw video to marketing@soulpp.com? We'd love to feature the car and add it into our resources for customer moving forwards : )

We'd love to have you join the SOUL community, anything we can do to help you choose us with confidence don't hesitate to ask :cheers:

Regards,
John Gaydos

Please check my build at @perfect_997c2

I don't know that there will ever be any consensus on this topic which has been brought up more times than I can remember. First reason of course is that there are so many options and combinations available that I doubt anyone has heard all of them. And even if you somehow managed to find a group of say 10 people who all claimed to have heard every available exhaust option/combination for the 997.1 and 997.2, exhaust note is so subjective that you would probably get 10 different opinions.

PSE and Sharkwerks on my GTS sounds very much like a Porsche at its best to me so I personally have no desire to experiment further. No affiliation with Sharkwerks btw.

I just want everyone to know that we make it a point to be as accommodating as we can. We're happy to chat on the phone to see if we can meet your unique needs. We will also take the system back if it you feel it doesn't quite meet the mark that we suggested it would hit. We're always here, and we're always ready to help. :)

-Mike