Arrogance levels - Dealership salespeople. This seems unique to Porsche.
10-30-2012, 10:08 PM
#61
I'm not a car salesman but my guess would be that email inquiries from strangers do not yield many sales. Since these guys are on commission, they don't want to waste their time on an activity that rarely yields a good result.
In my case I always call the dealership and talk to the salesman. I believe that gives a salesman an opportunity to size the prospect up to determine if he is a serious car buyer. I made a couple of calls this summer to dealerships that were well over an hour away from my house. In both cases the car salesman was willing to meet me at a location that was much closer to either my home or place of business.
Bottom line is that the Porsche salesman and GMs at the dealerships close to me are very professional and courteous, but so are the Audi, BMW, and MB salesmen. So I expect that salesmen do not like responding to emails, unless they know you. After my initial call for example, most of my communication is via email and the salesmen are very responsive.
In my case I always call the dealership and talk to the salesman. I believe that gives a salesman an opportunity to size the prospect up to determine if he is a serious car buyer. I made a couple of calls this summer to dealerships that were well over an hour away from my house. In both cases the car salesman was willing to meet me at a location that was much closer to either my home or place of business.
Bottom line is that the Porsche salesman and GMs at the dealerships close to me are very professional and courteous, but so are the Audi, BMW, and MB salesmen. So I expect that salesmen do not like responding to emails, unless they know you. After my initial call for example, most of my communication is via email and the salesmen are very responsive.
10-30-2012, 11:01 PM
#62
Rennlist Member
It seems it's all in who responds to your email or phone call. I had good luck last fall with Brian Kilcoyne at Princeton Porsche in NJ - I sent an email as soon as the car showed up on cars.com, telling him I was interested and to call me first thing Monday morning (found it posted on a Sunday night). He did, I asked for more pictures, he sent them, I asked him to walk around the car for me and answer questions, he did, I made him an offer, he countered, I countered and we had a deal. He sent me paperwork within about an hour, I made flight arrangements and was out there that weekend to pick it up and drive it home. I've had good and bad experiences at a variety of dealers, but I typically go out of my way to be professional and kind. Usually, but not always, that results in better treatment from the dealership. At least it has for me.
10-31-2012, 05:11 AM
#63
I'm not a car salesman but my guess would be that email inquiries from strangers do not yield many sales. Since these guys are on commission, they don't want to waste their time on an activity that rarely yields a good result.
In my case I always call the dealership and talk to the salesman. I believe that gives a salesman an opportunity to size the prospect up to determine if he is a serious car buyer.
So I expect that salesmen do not like responding to emails, unless they know you. After my initial call for example, most of my communication is via email and the salesmen are very responsive.
In my case I always call the dealership and talk to the salesman. I believe that gives a salesman an opportunity to size the prospect up to determine if he is a serious car buyer.
So I expect that salesmen do not like responding to emails, unless they know you. After my initial call for example, most of my communication is via email and the salesmen are very responsive.
The only arrogance here is the expectation that porsche dealerships would treat you differently because you're trying to buy a porsche. With even the slightest bit of experience in selling/listing cars you'll learn that most e-mail inquiries end up in either no follow up or lowball offers.
If I really wanted to buy a car, I would pick up the damn phone and call the person who has the car I want. If I wasn't sure which car I wanted, I would e-mail everybody trying to get more information on pricing and options. Dealers know this.
10-31-2012, 11:29 AM
#64
Rennlist Member
I have to add that when I was searching for a '09-'11 997 C4S Coupe 6 speed I called the 10 dealers located within my driving area, the Bay Area essentially and spoke with the sales manager in their used-car dept. and explained that I was ready and able to buy. I did not get a single call back, not have I ever received a single call back from any of those dealerships after my initial call. BTW, one of the dealership sales manager's knows I bought my '97 993 Coupe from them. I have had my '10 997 C4S, which I bought from a private party, for almost 1 month now and no word from any dealership. That makes no sense to me. I guess the 991's are flying off the lots so they do not need to sell "used" cars?
Oh, here is the C4S obligatory picture in my garage
Oh, here is the C4S obligatory picture in my garage
Last edited by cairo94507; 10-31-2012 at 11:43 AM. Reason: add picture
10-31-2012, 12:09 PM
#65
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I have to add that when I was searching for a '09-'11 997 C4S Coupe 6 speed I called the 10 dealers located within my driving area, the Bay Area essentially and spoke with the sales manager in their used-car dept. and explained that I was ready and able to buy. I did not get a single call back, not have I ever received a single call back from any of those dealerships after my initial call. BTW, one of the dealership sales manager's knows I bought my '97 993 Coupe from them. I have had my '10 997 C4S, which I bought from a private party, for almost 1 month now and no word from any dealership. That makes no sense to me. I guess the 991's are flying off the lots so they do not need to sell "used" cars?
Oh, here is the C4S obligatory picture in my garage
Oh, here is the C4S obligatory picture in my garage
10-13-2015, 06:02 PM
#66
I've been encountering impressive levels of lousy service in trying to deal long distance on lightly used C2S's. I'm semi-retired and willing and able to deal on and purchase the right car just about anywhere in the US. In searching the net (PCNA and general used car sites) I've encountered a number of interesting cars, all of which as luck would have it, have been in the inventories of "Premier" Porsche dealerships (as they are labelled on the PCNA site). Here's a summary of my experience...
(1) Melbourne, Fla - Sent an email asking for a price quote. Received response: "call me" - no quote. I sent an email repeating request for price quote. Ten days or so later received chastising response: "car sold - if you'd called when I told you to, you wouldn't have missed it".
(2) Princeton, NJ - sent an email to confirm used and/or demo status of an '07 C2S. Received response from Sales Mgr. - "will call or have one of my advisors call". Sent reply directly to Sales Mgr - "no need for call - I just want to know if car is a demo or used, if not a demo I'll come by to see it". No further responses received from dealership. Apparently the car is a demo, they assume my lack of interest and can't be bothered to reply.
(3) Parkplace - Dallas, Tx - sent an email to ask about price on a 9k mile C2S cab listed at $83k if navigation module were added by dealer. Received response quoting the cost for the module itself and a "make me an offer" invitation on the car. So I made an offer at around 90% of asking price - with dealer installed nav. ($83k for 9k mile '06 C2S cab with few options is pretty rich)
Received response - "NO" - that's it, just "NO" in capital letters, no further remarks, questions, apologies or counter-offers. Sent further email asking about clarification of pricing with nav installed and suggesting upward room on my offer because I like the color.
Received response that they would not be able to work within my price range, but still declining to set a price on the car with nav. Obviously not interested in screwing around installing a nav module to make a sale.
This is hilarious - the last 3 or 4 vehicles I've purchased have been over the net, primarily with emails. Of course, sales people are often reluctant to enter into this form of negotiation because statements and proposals are documented and they lose the ability to apply sales "skills" - exactly the reasons why I prefer to use this medium.
You want the best deal on your next new-built Porsche? Spec your car and send an email to every dealer in the US asking for a quote. Pick the one that makes you the best offer. I've done this a number of times with other brands.
I know it is the nature of the car shopping beast to encounter challenges every step of the way - but Porsche dealers seem to aspire to a level of arrogance that I have not encountered with other brands.
(1) Melbourne, Fla - Sent an email asking for a price quote. Received response: "call me" - no quote. I sent an email repeating request for price quote. Ten days or so later received chastising response: "car sold - if you'd called when I told you to, you wouldn't have missed it".
(2) Princeton, NJ - sent an email to confirm used and/or demo status of an '07 C2S. Received response from Sales Mgr. - "will call or have one of my advisors call". Sent reply directly to Sales Mgr - "no need for call - I just want to know if car is a demo or used, if not a demo I'll come by to see it". No further responses received from dealership. Apparently the car is a demo, they assume my lack of interest and can't be bothered to reply.
(3) Parkplace - Dallas, Tx - sent an email to ask about price on a 9k mile C2S cab listed at $83k if navigation module were added by dealer. Received response quoting the cost for the module itself and a "make me an offer" invitation on the car. So I made an offer at around 90% of asking price - with dealer installed nav. ($83k for 9k mile '06 C2S cab with few options is pretty rich)
Received response - "NO" - that's it, just "NO" in capital letters, no further remarks, questions, apologies or counter-offers. Sent further email asking about clarification of pricing with nav installed and suggesting upward room on my offer because I like the color.
Received response that they would not be able to work within my price range, but still declining to set a price on the car with nav. Obviously not interested in screwing around installing a nav module to make a sale.
This is hilarious - the last 3 or 4 vehicles I've purchased have been over the net, primarily with emails. Of course, sales people are often reluctant to enter into this form of negotiation because statements and proposals are documented and they lose the ability to apply sales "skills" - exactly the reasons why I prefer to use this medium.
You want the best deal on your next new-built Porsche? Spec your car and send an email to every dealer in the US asking for a quote. Pick the one that makes you the best offer. I've done this a number of times with other brands.
I know it is the nature of the car shopping beast to encounter challenges every step of the way - but Porsche dealers seem to aspire to a level of arrogance that I have not encountered with other brands.
Last edited by stratocaster69; 10-13-2015 at 07:44 PM.
10-13-2015, 06:20 PM
#67
Burning Brakes
I found that many porsche dealers were surprisingly unpleasant / arrogant / dishonest. I also noticed the resistance by some to giving prices over email --- at least really decent prices --- and dealers trying to conceal that cars are "demo" vehicles. I would try calling as well as emailing. Although you don't have a record of the conversation, some dealers seem more willing to do this. It doesn't sound like you will get intimidated -- so don't. Unless you are looking for a rare car, buyers actually have most of the leverage. Dealers don't like that....
I walked into our local Porsche dealer showroom with ratty clothes [actually swimwear as I was on the way to the beach] and not one of the sales people left their desk to come out and greet me until I asked the receptionist. They had a red C4S for sale and they would not budge from the listed price. I felt that they did not think that I was a real buyer. A week later, I drove back to this dealer in my C4S [see avatar] to buy something from the parts store and several folks from the sales dept had surrounded my car. I told them that I had to settle for this yellow one since they won't sell me the red one that was still on the lot. Two weeks after that, the red one was still on the lot...but with a lower price than I was prepared to pay. They don't care.
10-13-2015, 06:34 PM
#68
Burning Brakes
This. Exactly this.
The only arrogance here is the expectation that porsche dealerships would treat you differently because you're trying to buy a porsche. With even the slightest bit of experience in selling/listing cars you'll learn that most e-mail inquiries end up in either no follow up or lowball offers.
If I really wanted to buy a car, I would pick up the damn phone and call the person who has the car I want. If I wasn't sure which car I wanted, I would e-mail everybody trying to get more information on pricing and options. Dealers know this.
The only arrogance here is the expectation that porsche dealerships would treat you differently because you're trying to buy a porsche. With even the slightest bit of experience in selling/listing cars you'll learn that most e-mail inquiries end up in either no follow up or lowball offers.
If I really wanted to buy a car, I would pick up the damn phone and call the person who has the car I want. If I wasn't sure which car I wanted, I would e-mail everybody trying to get more information on pricing and options. Dealers know this.
That is quite a presumptuous statement. I earn a very good living in commissioned sales and yes, I received huge amounts of junk emails and phone calls. I never respond to any inquiry like the Porsche salespeople tend to do. Defend them if you wish but to suggest that the folks on the receiving end of crappy behavior are the arrogant ones is just silly.
10-13-2015, 06:39 PM
#69
Wow, very different than what I got last year at both Mckenna and Circle Porsche here in So. Cal. was treated very well even though I drove a PU to both. In fact I looked at the 997S due the the ****ty way Chevy dealers were treating me when the new C7 came out..(they thought that thing was solid gold)..and by the way could not be happier! So glad I went with the Porsche.
10-13-2015, 08:48 PM
#70
I can say that my experience at Porsche of Colorado Springs was completely opposite of a lot of what I've read here. Very accommodating with test drives, answering questions, and following up. I even got an invite to their grand opening of their new building -- which was a fabulous event. I felt bad that I ended up buying my 11 C2S cab from out-of-state but they just didn't have what I wanted -- despite that, the salesman I had been talking to was very friendly and said he wanted to see me at the track. The service manager took me in same day for a post-purchase inspection and was extraordinarily courteous. That dealership makes me WANT to do business with them.
10-13-2015, 08:51 PM
#71
I've been encountering impressive levels of lousy service in trying to deal long distance on lightly used C2S's. I'm semi-retired and willing and able to deal on and purchase the right car just about anywhere in the US. In searching the net (PCNA and general used car sites) I've encountered a number of interesting cars, all of which as luck would have it, have been in the inventories of "Premier" Porsche dealerships (as they are labelled on the PCNA site). Here's a summary of my experience...
(1) Melbourne, Fla - Sent an email asking for a price quote. Received response: "call me" - no quote. I sent an email repeating request for price quote. Ten days or so later received chastising response: "car sold - if you'd called when I told you to, you wouldn't have missed it".
(2) Princeton, NJ - sent an email to confirm used and/or demo status of an '07 C2S. Received response from Sales Mgr. - "will call or have one of my advisors call". Sent reply directly to Sales Mgr - "no need for call - I just want to know if car is a demo or used, if not a demo I'll come by to see it". No further responses received from dealership. Apparently the car is a demo, they assume my lack of interest and can't be bothered to reply.
(3) Parkplace - Dallas, Tx - sent an email to ask about price on a 9k mile C2S cab listed at $83k if navigation module were added by dealer. Received response quoting the cost for the module itself and a "make me an offer" invitation on the car. So I made an offer at around 90% of asking price - with dealer installed nav. ($83k for 9k mile '06 C2S cab with few options is pretty rich)
Received response - "NO" - that's it, just "NO" in capital letters, no further remarks, questions, apologies or counter-offers. Sent further email asking about clarification of pricing with nav installed and suggesting upward room on my offer because I like the color.
Received response that they would not be able to work within my price range, but still declining to set a price on the car with nav. Obviously not interested in screwing around installing a nav module to make a sale.
This is hilarious - the last 3 or 4 vehicles I've purchased have been over the net, primarily with emails. Of course, sales people are often reluctant to enter into this form of negotiation because statements and proposals are documented and they lose the ability to apply sales "skills" - exactly the reasons why I prefer to use this medium.
You want the best deal on your next new-built Porsche? Spec your car and send an email to every dealer in the US asking for a quote. Pick the one that makes you the best offer. I've done this a number of times with other brands.
I know it is the nature of the car shopping beast to encounter challenges every step of the way - but Porsche dealers seem to aspire to a level of arrogance that I have not encountered with other brands.
(1) Melbourne, Fla - Sent an email asking for a price quote. Received response: "call me" - no quote. I sent an email repeating request for price quote. Ten days or so later received chastising response: "car sold - if you'd called when I told you to, you wouldn't have missed it".
(2) Princeton, NJ - sent an email to confirm used and/or demo status of an '07 C2S. Received response from Sales Mgr. - "will call or have one of my advisors call". Sent reply directly to Sales Mgr - "no need for call - I just want to know if car is a demo or used, if not a demo I'll come by to see it". No further responses received from dealership. Apparently the car is a demo, they assume my lack of interest and can't be bothered to reply.
(3) Parkplace - Dallas, Tx - sent an email to ask about price on a 9k mile C2S cab listed at $83k if navigation module were added by dealer. Received response quoting the cost for the module itself and a "make me an offer" invitation on the car. So I made an offer at around 90% of asking price - with dealer installed nav. ($83k for 9k mile '06 C2S cab with few options is pretty rich)
Received response - "NO" - that's it, just "NO" in capital letters, no further remarks, questions, apologies or counter-offers. Sent further email asking about clarification of pricing with nav installed and suggesting upward room on my offer because I like the color.
Received response that they would not be able to work within my price range, but still declining to set a price on the car with nav. Obviously not interested in screwing around installing a nav module to make a sale.
This is hilarious - the last 3 or 4 vehicles I've purchased have been over the net, primarily with emails. Of course, sales people are often reluctant to enter into this form of negotiation because statements and proposals are documented and they lose the ability to apply sales "skills" - exactly the reasons why I prefer to use this medium.
You want the best deal on your next new-built Porsche? Spec your car and send an email to every dealer in the US asking for a quote. Pick the one that makes you the best offer. I've done this a number of times with other brands.
I know it is the nature of the car shopping beast to encounter challenges every step of the way - but Porsche dealers seem to aspire to a level of arrogance that I have not encountered with other brands.
10-13-2015, 09:11 PM
#72
I've been treated very well at my local dealership. There was a time when I came in for service and inquired about a couple of cars. I asked for a test drive and the Salesperson gave me the keys (both cars), I test drove the cars on my own for 20-30 minutes. There were no issues/pressure when I returned the cars.
10-13-2015, 11:54 PM
#73
Over the years, I have had a few Porsches serviced by what is now Porsche Plano in Texas. Even though I have never purchased one from them (I buy used and it just never happened there), they have always taken great care of me. I consider them my friends.
10-14-2015, 02:43 AM
#74
I have met salespeople at Porsche dealers that were not "car people". I don't need them to be Porsche fans or 993 autocrossers--just focused, attentive and responsive. I bought my 997 from a young salesman who had no problem working with me via text. Without that text link I would have lost the car to another buyer who had a more flexible schedule.
I get Wards magazine for dealers for some reason. Reading industry insider articles about the dealer's view of car sales, customers, and how to "close the deal" makes me nauseous. These guys go to seminars to learn how to get people to buy cars they don't want with money they don't have. Much of it requires the customer to be in the dealership and assumes the customer is obsessed with a particular car.
According to Wards the internet, e-mail, and text are obstacles to closing the sale. It doesn't surprise me to hear that a salesman declines to respond to "out of the blue" e-mail or text. Visit or call the dealer... then let them know that you are easiest to reach via e-mail or text for followup, if that is indeed your preference.
I get Wards magazine for dealers for some reason. Reading industry insider articles about the dealer's view of car sales, customers, and how to "close the deal" makes me nauseous. These guys go to seminars to learn how to get people to buy cars they don't want with money they don't have. Much of it requires the customer to be in the dealership and assumes the customer is obsessed with a particular car.
According to Wards the internet, e-mail, and text are obstacles to closing the sale. It doesn't surprise me to hear that a salesman declines to respond to "out of the blue" e-mail or text. Visit or call the dealer... then let them know that you are easiest to reach via e-mail or text for followup, if that is indeed your preference.
10-14-2015, 10:25 AM
#75
Instructor
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Don't worry guys the VW scandal will knock them down a peg or two.
I expect tumbleweeds to be blowing through their showrooms in the next few years.
Gotta laugh at the VW directors being trotted out all over the world for
the obligatory "I apologize sincerely and unreservedly" Bull@hit
More like "We apologize sincerely and unreservedly"....for getting caught !
It's hard to imagine if VW and maybe Porsche in their current form will even survive the billions of fines coming.
Mind you for true arrogance try a ferrari stealership they look at you as if you've dragged some you-know-what in on your shoes,and think they are
doing you a favour by letting you drop 300k on one of their cars.
I expect tumbleweeds to be blowing through their showrooms in the next few years.
Gotta laugh at the VW directors being trotted out all over the world for
the obligatory "I apologize sincerely and unreservedly" Bull@hit
More like "We apologize sincerely and unreservedly"....for getting caught !
It's hard to imagine if VW and maybe Porsche in their current form will even survive the billions of fines coming.
Mind you for true arrogance try a ferrari stealership they look at you as if you've dragged some you-know-what in on your shoes,and think they are
doing you a favour by letting you drop 300k on one of their cars.